Presentation of my Sulcatas + Pardalis (Photos, Enclosure, website)

[Juan V]

Hi all, i'm new and i've only posted a few times in this forum. My name is Juan, i'm from Valencia, Spain , and i'm pretty happy to introduce to you my three tortoises and their enclosure.



The first two sulcatas i got them from a famous retail shop here in Valencia, and the pardalis was given to me by my girlfriend a few months later as a gift. (she named her Baby Precious... .... ... the other two still havent got a name).

Anyway, the closure is an IKEA Detolf cabinet that cost me 50€. It is sitting under another ikea case that also cost me around 50€. The cabinet has a hole in it that allows cables to come in and out. The door is kept close in winter to keep heat from escaping, and it's left open in summer (because of high temperatures).

Every morning the sun comes in through the windows and heatens up the terrarium. I know only a tiny portion of the UVA light (no UVB) passes through the double glass that surrounds the enclosure, so the UVB T8 fluorescent tube with 8.0UVA/B helps the torts enjoy their UVA/B rays.

The infrared lamp is a 75W that heatens a part of the terrarium and that allows the torts to have heat throughout the winter and termoregulate. The whole system is connected to a microcomputer that analyzes the humidity and the temperature every minute, and adjusts the temperature by connecting or disconnecting the heatlamp. The temperature is recorded in a database and then through a webserver the whole information can be seen in http://troindx.noip.me , where temperatures and humidities are displayed for better monitoring of the temperature throughout the day.

The temperatures right now in winter are kept between 20ºC during the night and 34ºC during the day, ( 70F a and 100F if i'm not mistaken). But they vary throughout the day just as they would in normal conditions

Here are some pictures.

The tortoise enclosement while being cleaned.


enclosure under maintenance.




Baby Precious eating fresh grass on a lovely afternoon today (temp roughly around 29ºC) (to transform to farenheit, multiply by 2 and add 30, this is a pretty good aproximation for temperatures between 60F and 120F)


the bush is an hibiscus that gives me plenty of flowers throughout the summer, and one or two in winter.

the whole enclosement with LED lights switched on (30€ on IKEA)


The torts hanging out under the infrared lightbulb. This picture was taken under infrarred rays. Notice how the shell appears completely white and luminescent. They have evolved to reflect as much heat as they can, which makes sense due to the fact that sun is quite harsh in their natural environments.

the UVA/B tube.

the tortoises waiting for their enclosure to be cleaned.

Bath time for them!!! i don't regularly soak them, but at least once a week I give em a small hot bath that they enjoy.


This is where all the circuitry goes. I hooked the whole system up using a protoboard ,a few resistances, a diode and more cables.


These are the views from the window. There's plenty of space for sunlight to pass throughout the whole morning.

Windows and terrarium placement. Plenty of sun comes in to heat the terrarium every morning. Even though they do not provide enough UVA/B due to the cristals, they do provide the torts with heat, nice natural lighting conditions and sun rays that they use to bath themselves in the sun. UVA/B rays come from the
tube.


LEDs can be altered to show different colors, This is mainly for aesthetics, but to watch them at night time without disturbing, red lighting is preferred.



I'd like to know your opinion, because i've always been taught to keep torts under low humidity conditions, and i've been reading here that high humidity values are better for them. Vets and shopkeepers have adviced me totally different things , as well as people from several spanish forums dedicated to tortoises.

I fear the temperature might not be warm enough in winter afternoons, so I'm planning in adding a small heating cable around. I know lamps are preferable to cables, but this is just a 30W and it'll just add some moisture from the ground and keep the whole thing warmer, without it being powerful enough to mess with the torts.

any opinions?

 

[bouaboua]

I like the idea that you turn this display case into a enclosure. great idea.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Yellow Turtle01]

Welcome!
Your torts are cute I'm making predictions for this thread, but I'll step out

 

[Tom]

My comments:
1. The closed chamber type system you are using there is ideal in may ways. I like what you've done there.
2. Your substrate looks damp and ideal. I suspect your humidity is much higher than you think it is.
3. I would not have an all glass closed enclosure like that so close to all those windows for fear of the "greenhouse effect" and over heating. If you are closely monitoring temperatures, I hope you will successfully avoid disaster.
4. Red lights, or any other color for that matter, are not recommended. Tortoises have better color vision than we do, so if you can see with it at night, so can they, and that is not good. It should be dark at night, but still warm. Colored lights mess with their sleeping cycles and many tortoises kept under red bulbs end up eating substrate or other inedible things. Keep an eye out for these issues.
5. Species should never be mixed. Even captive bred individuals. These two species have vastly different personalities and should really never be mixed.
6. Due to species mixing, you now have a trio, but prior to that you had a pair. Tortoises should never be kept in pairs.

Pet stores are notorious for dispensing bad outdated or incorrect advice. I would not listen to them. I have no idea what is recommended on a Spanish tortoise forum, but if it is anything like the rest of the forums of the world, excepts ours, at least some of it is probably not good. I hope that you can take what you learn here and share it with the people of Spain.

These threads might help you with some of the finer points:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.78361/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

It appears you live in an apartment several floors up. What are you going to do with two sulcatas when they get bigger? If things go well, they will outgrow that little enclosure in less than a year.

 

[leigti]

I think using the IKEA unit was a creative idea. And as I mentioned in your other thread I think you are getting more humidity then you realize which is a good thing. your tortoises are very pretty. I also received poor advice from pet stores, they usually don't know anything. please stay on this forum and research different viewpoints. The people here mean well and they have a great deal of knowledge.

 

[leopard777]

have to say , the view from your window , very nice , i google this ikea detolf , seem like many hamster keeper uses this too , real cheap ikea hack i would say , i found one used selling for 30

 

[Juan V]

Hi Tom:
3) About that issue, i am working on a small script that , if temperature rises too high it will send me an email that i'll read directly in my phone
4) In january I need to change the light tube for a new one. I'll also get a ceramic bulb that doesnt emit light to replace for the infrarred. Hell i might go the day after tomorrow and buy everything all together. The LED lights are just for displaying. I also normally put it on color "white" if I think they might need extra light to see stuff.
5) Species should never be mixed in small enclosures, I know. I used to have water turtles mixed and there was no problem there they even tried to mate between them. However I've read these two tortoises can coexist together with ease and I don't want to get rid of one so this is a problem I won't be able to solve. I could separate them, but having them in smaller enclosures to avoid this issue I think is just worse than just leaving them be. And I don't want to get rid of any of them. Hopefully this won't be a big issue since i've seen many different tortoises live together without problems in my friend's house.
6) Why not? i've read this a few times in this forum but ... i don't understand why, I thought tortoises were territorial no matter with how many males/ females they lived

I have a big house in the countryside with a vast closed garden of over 1km2.with mediterranean plants that they can eat and a lot of grass. I'll take them there and have the whole system monitorized with my invention :-D. This also betters the problem at 5.

 

[Tom]

Here is a thread better explaining the pair thing:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/pairs.34837/

Mixing species is a bad idea because of behavioral reasons and the potential of spreading disease that different species have not evolved any way of fighting off. Whole collections have died because of this practice.

You really need three enclosures to keep all the tortoises you have. Its not fair to subject them to the unpleasantness that is in their future if you continue on in this way.

 

[ascott]

I have a big house in the countryside with a vast closed garden of over 1km2.with mediterranean plants that they can eat and a lot of grass. I'll take them there and have the whole system monitorized with my invention :-D. This also betters the problem at 5.

[/QUOTE]


I do hope you will also treat us with some photos of that view....You are blessed with living in such a lovely landscape....beautiful....oh, and beautiful tortoise...also, keep in mind that if you have had tortoise for a while and they seem to be responding well to your set up ---I would not completely abandon your ways while adding to them

There is NO one person on this forum that has all of the answers...none. There are many that can offer you pieces of what works for them and the tortoise in their care...but no one here is a tortoise expert---so do take what you read with a grain of salt....so to speak. Again, lovely torts.

 

[Juan V]

You really need three enclosures to keep all the tortoises you have. Its not fair to subject them to the unpleasantness that is in their future if you continue on in this way.

Yeah but , these two species can be found together in the wild. They can even interbreed and create viable lovely offspring. I seriously seriously seriously don't think this will be a real serious issue. About the mixing species, I get it that you shouldn't mix Graecas with Sulcatas, but... Graecas with Horsfieldii isn't a big problem, or hermanni and horsfieldii. My call would be that it should be relatively safe if and only if both species you are trying to keep together can create offspring. (meaning they are not genetically as different as for this to be a problem).

As for the pictures you were asking :-D, you are right, i'm very blessed.

 

[tortdad]

I would like to know more about your micro computer.

 

[Juan V]

Sure ! It's called a Raspberry Pi (you can google it). They cost under 35 usd and you can find them in many electronics shopes or computer stores. It has a 1GHZ arm processor as well as 256mb ram, It has an HDMI port, an sd card slot where you can install any sd card with the OS , an ethernet port, 2 usb ports and some input output pins that you can program. In my case I run it with a small linux distribution. I've hardwared a rele and a temperature sensor with a really small and stupid script. The script is constantly polling the sensor, (asking the temperature and humidity values ). The script analyzes the information given by the small sensor (the sensor cost me about 5€, and all of the equipment needed to build all of it would have cost me roughly around 10€ .) and switches the rele ON or OFF if the temperature is too high or too low. If the temperature is too low, the rele is switched ON, so the circuit activates and the heating bulb is switched on. Whenever the temperature reaches a stable point, like 30ºC, the rele then switches OFF so the circuit closes and the heating bulb is switched off automatically. Temperatures are recorded in a database. This is basically a thermostat. It will keep the terrarium between the temperature values that you asigned it to be. In my case, TEMP MIN is 23ºC and TEMP MAX is 32ºC . These two values are lowered at night , when temperatures need to be a bit lower.

 

[leopard777]

to be frank i feel 23 c/73 f is very cold , is that on your cool side of the enclosure ?

 

[Juan V]

That is the minimum temp . the sensor is next to the hot part but its not the hottest part of the terrarium

 

[Juan V]

But yeah i also think it is too cold. Im getting a stronger more powerful bulb tomorrow.
In summer theres no problem but winter might pose a higher problem at nightime or in the afternoon. In the morning its next to the windows and the sun heats everything up thanls to the greenhous effect

 

[leigti]

It might get way too hot in the summer. but you could Block some of the light out with some white paper taped to the glass to negate some of the greenhouse effect.

 

[leopard777]

by the way , can you share how do you hook up a Raspberry Pi , maybe a step by step instruction with picture ?

 

[Juan V]

by the way , can you share how do you hook up a Raspberry Pi , maybe a step by step instruction with picture ?

I could but it would require some computer and electronics knowledge

 

[Juan V]

just a quick update, i've upgraded the temperature so it now reaches about 90F and i've watered the whole place for it to be humid. It won't reach 80% but i'm guessing it's roughly around 60% at ground level.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Each species carries pathogens that potentially could make the other species sick or dead. I'm thinkin you MAY be past that point, but what are you going to do when the Sulcata start bullying the Leopard? It WILL happen. Probably within the next few months.
I use black light bulbs for heat and my sister has before me and neither of us have had any trouble raising tortoises that way. We all have our opinions and ways of doing things...