Problems in paradise...

Status
Not open for further replies.

Tony the tank

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
1,125
Well twice in he last week I have found the sub adult female on her back...couldn't figure out how she was ending up that way..She shares an enclosure with Tony...Well today I decided to watch them..(I have a video camera in the enclosure wired to my TV.) .. What I saw was really strange.. Tony as always does his constant pacing around the perimeter... the female usually hangs in the middle.....Well what I saw was Tony full bore doing his pacing(moves real quick) and out of no where with no warning she runs in front of him attempting to ram him.. (He is about 30 lbs heavy than her...female 20lbs , Tony 50lbs) he just keeps going and she ends up on her back...He doesn't ram her.. He just doesn't break stride and he is moving so fast she just bounces off him and ends up on her back...

Question is ..Is this normal? (They have been together for a while without issue).. Will this always be an issue..or will they get back to getting along...


Thoughts opinions????
 
M

Maggie Cummings

Guest
Do you know for sure that she IS a she? It sounds to me like typical male behavior. It also sounds like your habitat is not big enough for 2 tortoises their size. Not knowing how big it actually is I am just going on again, their behavior. Is it possible it's too small without sight breaks or places for them to get away from each other?
 

Laura

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
5 Year Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
7,502
Location (City and/or State)
Foothills above Sacramento CA
that is a huge size difference, and might end up being a bad thing...
what size is the enclosure? do you have two heated areas or just one? if one, do they both use it?
 

Tony the tank

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
1,125
The enclosure is 13x20..it's seems good size..one lg hide that Tony never uses..(preferring to sleep tucked into a corner next to the hide)The female doesn't use much of the enclosure..moving between the UVB light, heatlamp and food tray.. But Tony walks the entire perimeter constantly (if she stops in front of him he just climbs over her or goes around her). Stops for a few seconds eats and starts all over... They seem to share everything fine..Tony never uses the heat lamp..only the UVB light in the morning and when he moves out she moves in...

I'm pretty sure it's a female as she has a very short tail..anal spurs curve inward..


The funny thing is Tony doesn't seem bothered by it...doesnt try to ram her..He doesn't even break stride....

Seems like it just started..wonder if it has something to do with not having been outside in about Two weeks...
 

ascott

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
16,152
Location (City and/or State)
Apple Valley, California
Dang....well maybe tony is just annoying her/him with the constant pacing? :D maybe the little one has had enough...LOL

Ok so seriously, I would speculate that if they were both males then Tony would have challenged and clobbered the smaller one? Simply based on size, you know? However, I have an adult male CDT who would not be the aggresor to any other male even when provoked my normal standards of the word...so that would not necessarily be a tell all.....hmmmm? Are they the only two in the enclosure? And females can also be aggressive so maybe you are running into the dreaded pairs issue?

Are you able to split them up for awhile so you can observe them both apart? I wonder if them being split will also give Tony a break from pacing as much? How did he act before the smaller one was put in with him? Just rattling off all the crazy in my head :D LOL and some days there is alot...hahah
 

DesertGrandma

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
2,131
Location (City and/or State)
Arizona
@ Angela Dang....well maybe tony is just annoying her/him with the constant pacing? maybe the little one has had enough...LOL


Yeah, she needs a little headset so she can listen to calming music. He's driving her crazy with his pacing, LOL...
 

Laura

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
5 Year Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
7,502
Location (City and/or State)
Foothills above Sacramento CA
13x20 is small. I remember when i was looking for size recomendations.. 40x40 was what was said.
post pictures of the underside of the 'female' and see if we can tell..
I was not aware of the spur angle meaning male or female. does it?
 

Tony the tank

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
1,125
I have separated them placed her with Tiny..(she rammed him..he rammed back.. She walked away..Tiny follows her and trys to bite hers shell..Not her legs only her shell) Tony still paces nonstop...(tell you it annoys me just watching him..and if I physically try to stop him he moans and just pushes on..)..Her behavior doesn't change ...She has a small section in the enclosure were Tony can't annoy her..But she never uses it...preferring to lay in the middle of the track:D

I hope it works out.. Or I'm going to have to section off a small section of the enclosure just for her..
 

ascott

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
16,152
Location (City and/or State)
Apple Valley, California
Hector...this is a winter set up isn't it?

And little wireless headset would be fantastic....Lol:D
 

Tony the tank

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
1,125
Laura said:
13x20 is small. I remember when i was looking for size recomendations.. 40x40 was what was said.
post pictures of the underside of the 'female' and see if we can tell..
I was not aware of the spur angle meaning male or female. does it?

40x40 indoor winter enclosure..Wow..I would need to build them there own stand alone house..Something that big I would probably need to pull a permit and hire an architect in my neighborhood....

Will get some pics posted tomorrow.....
 

Laura

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
5 Year Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
7,502
Location (City and/or State)
Foothills above Sacramento CA
i think you are going to have issues... In a place where you need to house them indoors in the winter? One slucata would be tough!
My two big guys have a 60x 80 or bigger... i cant recall anymore.. and a over hang, and thier heat box is under there.. near the barn. I have acerage, so I have room for sulcatas.. but its what you need for them..
I would love to see pictures.. see how people do it. I know when I started I was searching for enclosure ideas and info.
 

Tony the tank

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
1,125
Angela..that's correct..it's just there winter setup....Tiny has a similar setup as Tony on the other side of the basement also.....I don't have room to build another one.. As the other side of the basement is a finished rec room (I just built to get the wife's blessing on building the enclosures down there..:p )

Laura said:
i think you are going to have issues... In a place where you need to house them indoors in the winter? One slucata would be tough!
My two big guys have a 60x 80 or bigger... i cant recall anymore.. and a over hang, and thier heat box is under there.. near the barn. I have acerage, so I have room for sulcatas.. but its what you need for them..
I would love to see pictures.. see how people do it. I know when I started I was searching for enclosure ideas and info.

Laura..In the summer they have access to the yard..A little under an acre and a half..fenced in...

Laura your torts have a 60x80 indoor enclosure?? Wow..
 

ascott

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
16,152
Location (City and/or State)
Apple Valley, California
Hector....how big is tiny compared to the little one with tony?:D

Hector...is there any way you can build UP instead of out? Like a loft over Tonys ground level enclosure...for the little one with him now...:D
 

Tony the tank

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
1,125
Angela.. Tiny is about 60+ lbs...(he gained back the 24oz he lost when he passed all those rocks:rolleyes: ).. But Tiny and Tony battle it out..every time there path cross..And tiny likes to bite the females shell...Funny not her legs just the shell..and she seems scared of Tiny..

Well I have two options take 4 ft of the each enclosure and make her enclosure 26x4..Tinys enclosure 13x16 and Tony's 13x16.. (I really don't think she will use the 26 ft of it)

Next option is to cut Tinys enclosure by 4ft creating her a 4x12 and leaving tiny a 12x16...Tiny is a real laid back Tort rarely moves around the enclosure...He moves to the UVB bulb in the morning after a few hrs eats and just sits there untill he gets hungry again..then he might head to the Mazuri Trough load up..then relax..

The exact opposite of Tony..
 

ascott

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
16,152
Location (City and/or State)
Apple Valley, California
Well Hector it sounds as though you have some options that will allow each their own digs...awesome :D
 

Laura

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
5 Year Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
7,502
Location (City and/or State)
Foothills above Sacramento CA
no.. mine are not housed indoors.. they are outside 24x7..
if its too cold, they stay in thier houses..
i know some people whos torts plow thru the snow,, then go back to thier houses..
its thier choice, they can graze all day, sleep all day or do some of both. all outside.
 

Tony the tank

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
1,125
Well I opened there door to the yard Saturday.. Had about 3" of snow...Tony went out took about 10 steps ..bit the snow and turned right around and went back in....Tiny went out wandered about for about 10 minutes then went back in...There no fans of the cold white stuff..

I can't see them going out in the dead of winter...unless I shovel the yard...sometimes I have 3-4 ft of snow back there..I've lost my dogs in some of the drifts....
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
57,638
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Hector, can we see a pic of the females plastron and anal scutes?

I just can't imagine keeping a 50 pound sulcata in a 13x20' pen all winter. I don't want to make anyone feel bad, but that is not a lot of room for an animal that big. I use 15x30' pens for my 3 inchers to sun in, and that feels crowded to me.

I do think you need to keep them separate. The stress from those close quarters will eventually take a toll...
 

Tony the tank

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
1,125
I will post some pics tomorrow morning..,it's 3am here and everyone except me is sleeping... I decided I needed/wanted to finish wiring the new addition....
 

yagyujubei

Active Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Messages
2,407
Location (City and/or State)
Amish Country
Hector, I think that I would try to section off an area in the middle for the smaller one. Leave the larger perimeter for the big one to walk around. Sort of a rectangle within a rectangle. Evidently, all of our Western members have no idea the problems inherent with keeping a large tortoise in a cold climate indoors. I'm not sure how helpful their comments about outside pen size in sunny california helps you. I'm waiting for someone to suggest that maybe you shouldn't have them at all. Just think, though, in about 6 short months, they can go outside again.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

New Posts

Top