Pyramiding in tortoises with Metabolic Bone Disease

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Isa

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RE: pyramiding

Seriously I do not understand what is happening now! Yvonne start a super intersting thread, it is super nice of her and now Ed, you do not share the same opinion, you do not really say why or you do not try to prove your point and you are kind of insulting her!!! Geeezzz, it is starting to be scary to post something on this forum!
 

-EJ

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RE: pyramiding

If you go into the Debate Section(where I believe this topic belongs) and look up pyramiding and MBD you will find this topic discussed at length. You will then see why this particular thread should not be highlighted as any kind of fact.

My concern is that a new keeper is going to read this highlited topic and panic.

Also... my accusation... was a question.

I'm curious... how many new keepers have tortoises have some form of pyramiding? Does this kind of information cause you any kind of distress?



Isa said:
Seriously I do not understand what is happening now! Yvonne start a super intersting thread, it is super nice of her and now Ed, you do not share the same opinion, you do not really say why or you do not try to prove your point and you are kind of insulting her!!! Geeezzz, it is starting to be scary to post something on this forum!
 

Isa

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RE: pyramiding

-EJ said:
Also... my accusation... was a question.

I'm curious... how many new keepers have tortoises have some form of pyramiding? Does this kind of information cause you any kind of distress?

It was not a question but an insult the way you said it.
And why would this kind of info would cause any kind of distress to someone? I found the info super informative :)
 

-EJ

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RE: pyramiding

THAT's the scary part... you saw it as informative... it is not. It actually shows 2 tortoises with MBD (a 'normal' wild caught DTs shell is about twice that thick at the point at which that photo was taken) One is being use as a 'normal' example and the other is used as an abnormal example. The abnormal example is further being use to demonstrate that the two conditions are related... They are not.


Isa said:
-EJ said:
Also... my accusation... was a question.

I'm curious... how many new keepers have tortoises have some form of pyramiding? Does this kind of information cause you any kind of distress?

It was not a question but an insult the way you said it.
And why would this kind of info would cause any kind of distress to someone? I found the info super informative :)
 

Yvonne G

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RE: pyramiding

Roachman26 said:
EJ, please let us know where to go too find "real" info. on this subject. I obviously do want to learn, but I'm limited to magazines, old, out-dated books and reptile shows.

You will have to join the WCT list serv in order to open this album, but here is the link to Don's Desert album where he shows the complete group of pictures. He refers to them as having MBD, so that was my mistake in showing only the pyramided quote. Evidently the pyramided tortoise suffered from MBD.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WCT_O...ic/list?mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc

He says that the cut is at the front of the carapace on both pictures, the healthy and the MBD one.
 

Stephanie Logan

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RE: pyramiding

-EJ said:
I'm not making an accusation... I'm stating outright
Also... my accusation... was a question.

These two statements contradict each other. Which is it, Ed, a statement, a question, or an accusation?

I should think you would know since you posted both, but I'm not sure anyone else does.

I would appreciate a little clarity and a lot more courtesy, please.
 

Yvonne G

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RE: pyramiding

Ok, I think that's enough on the subject of Ed in this thread. He doesn't think he made a wrong comment and I admit that I didn't think I was showing MBD pictures. I've since gone back to Don's original posted pictures on the WCT list serv and Don says the pictures are of a tortoise with MBD. So these pictures don't show a pyramided tortoise, they show a pyramided tortoise with MBD. I think it would be VERY interesting to see a cut off section of pyramiding with NO MBD.

I'm ok with it and I hope the rest of you are too. An honest mistake on my part. Sorry.
 

-EJ

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RE: pyramiding

I am sorry if you were insulted by my question. It wasn't intended as an insult but as a sighn of frustration on my part.

This is a topic I feel very strongly about. I also think I explained my point well enough to be understood.

Everyone makes mistakes which is why an open discussion is beneficial.

(A little off topic... does anyone here remember the pop TV show 'The Mob Squad'...? I don't know why I just thought of that.)

emysemys said:
Ok, I think that's enough on the subject of Ed in this thread. He doesn't think he made a wrong comment and I admit that I didn't think I was showing MBD pictures. I've since gone back to Don's original posted pictures on the WCT list serv and Don says the pictures are of a tortoise with MBD. So these pictures don't show a pyramided tortoise, they show a pyramided tortoise with MBD. I think it would be VERY interesting to see a cut off section of pyramiding with NO MBD.

I'm ok with it and I hope the rest of you are too. An honest mistake on my part. Sorry.
 

bettinge

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RE: pyramiding

"Do you enjoy misinforming the people who are looking for real information?"

"All I can offer is a sigh and hope the readers of this trash do some research of their own."

Its really all about the power of words. I think most people would feel they have to defend themselves with these statements. Funny how people read things different than we thought we wrote them!
 

Stephanie Logan

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RE: pyramiding

bettinge said:
"Do you enjoy misinforming the people who are looking for real information?"
"All I can offer is a sigh and hope the readers of this trash do some research of their own."
Its really all about the power of words. I think most people would feel they have to defend themselves with these statements. Funny how people read things different than we thought we wrote them!

Or read them exactly as we meant them.

Powerful, indeed.
 
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stells

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RE: pyramiding

Come on... Ed has apologised... on the public forum...

Maybe a thank you to Ed is more appropriate than discussing his tone... mine has been discussed in the past too and i'm still not sure how to have a tone when it is just typed out...

But thanks to Ed the small mistake has now been rectified and the thread is back on track???
 

Jacqui

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RE: pyramiding

I agree Kelly, both Ed and Yvonne have apologized and any unplanned misinformation has been cleared up. Time to move on and only talk about what this thread is about.

Ed, yep I remember Mod Squad, a nice TV series with Lincoln, Julie and Bobby. (oops I say back to being on topic and then I answered to something off topic, okay Robyn you can wack my bad mod fingers now.)
 

terracolson

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RE: pyramiding

Ok I skipped the second pages... seems i stumbled on drama...

I really want to learn about this but to be honest i would like to see pictures that i can understnad.. i dont get the first pics...

what does it look like when the tortoise is alive- compareing to PERFECT to PYRAMINDed.
then on the inside how does it look...

also how does it differ per species? i hear leopards are common to pyramind? how long does it take? can it be corrected?


where is a book any one?

I found a great link that answer lots of my questins
http://africantortoise.com/pyramiding_in_tortoises.htm
 

terracolson

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RE: pyramiding with MBD

look at this pic of a leopard tortoise

leopardm.jpg




http://www.nhc.ed.ac.uk/index.php?page=24.134.137.142.154
 

Kymiie

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RE: pyramiding with MBD

Thank you, but I do have one question!
How did he get empty shells?
Did the tortoise die, and he left it to decay away to keep the shell?
xx
 

-EJ

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RE: pyramiding

I love discussing 'pyramiding' but when I get a sense of attitude I can only assume the discussion can go bad.

What you call 'drama' is a very long time discussion between friends that has taken place over about 10 or better years.

Also... your link is administering wrong information(that was covered in the drama section of this thread) right off the bat in the first line. I wouldn't even bother reading the rest if the author does not understand the relationship of MBD and pyramiding.

terracolson said:
Ok I skipped the second pages... seems i stumbled on drama...

I really want to learn about this but to be honest i would like to see pictures that i can understnad.. i dont get the first pics...

what does it look like when the tortoise is alive- compareing to PERFECT to PYRAMINDed.
then on the inside how does it look...

also how does it differ per species? i hear leopards are common to pyramind? how long does it take? can it be corrected?


where is a book any one?

I found a great link that answer lots of my questins
http://africantortoise.com/pyramiding_in_tortoises.htm

 

kimmikins

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RE: pyramiding with MBD

Sometimes i think we write things meaning absolutely no malice and the way it gets read mutates into something negative.. I READ HOSTILITY in the last post but i am sure this is not the case.. I can only hope as a new comer to this site that my readings of hostility are unfounded and i am barking up the wrong tree,, I would hate to feel i needed to leave a forum when the essence of it is so fanastic xx
 

Yvonne G

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RE: pyramiding with MBD

kimmikins said:
Sometimes i think we write things meaning absolutely no malice and the way it gets read mutates into something negative.. I READ HOSTILITY in the last post but i am sure this is not the case.. I can only hope as a new comer to this site that my readings of hostility are unfounded and i am barking up the wrong tree,, I would hate to feel i needed to leave a forum when the essence of it is so fanastic xx

Please don't even think of leaving the forum! Pyramiding and MBD are topics very close to EJ's heart and he's trying to make people understand what it is and why it is. He might be a little brusque at times, but his heart is in the right place!
 

terracolson

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RE: pyramiding

Well i am still learning, my point was about the picture.

I was wanting pictures that show perfect and not so perfect shell.

As A newbie, I would like the complete picture..

I see SO many leopard tortoises here in sac but all of them are pyraminded, what does a healthy one look like?

I was trying to find out...
 

Yvonne G

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RE: pyramiding with MBD

The very first picture showed a perfect shell on the left and a not-so-perfect shell on the right.
 
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