Pyramiding

[johanna]

I'm really embarrassed to be asking this, but why are the shells of my pancakes not smooth? This is a difficult post because I feel people will judge me for this. I think I posted a long time ago when my male was younger but it was fairly minor then. It still isn't bad on him, but it is definitely not smooth. I've had the male for 2 years and he was small when I got him. I've had the female 2 years since she was a baby. The female is a little worse. She has some indented spots. How did I fail them? I've been keeping reptiles for about 15 years so I thought I was doing everything right. I have a feeling I wasn't soaking enough when they were little. They have heat, hiding places, UVB, a large soaking tub, they go outside in the summer; I feed grass, dandelion, cactus pads, spring mix, mustard greens, beet greens, chard, watercress, and other random things that I pick up.
I included some pictures.
Male:


Female:

 

[Mrturtle527]

I hope that nothing is wrong, they are beautiful.

 

[Tom]

All of the things you mentioned do not cause or prevent pyramiding. Pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry. I bet you have an open topped enclosure and a heat lamp, right? Its near impossible to maintain good growing conditions with an open top. All your warm humid air just floats up and into the room. You probably read on the internet that glass tanks are bad because they don't get enough air flow. All the air flow in an open topped enclosure, like a "tortoise table" removes the good air the you are trying to create.

Next time you raise a hatchling, do it in a closed chamber with warm temps, high humidity, a humid hide box, daily soaks for the first few months, and spray the carapace with plain water 3 or 4 times a day. AND do all the other things you mentioned. Your diet, care routine and housing all sound pretty good. More soaks as hatchlings might have helped some.

There is no sense in judging you. We ALL got the wrong info in decades past. I raised countless pyramided tortoises prior to understanding the things I just typed above. No. No judgement. Sympathy maybe. Helpfulness for sure. But no one here will judge you for following "expert" advice, reading books, doing research and trying your very best to do a good job.

 

[johanna]

I was very active on this forum when I got them and was under the impression they were more of a desert tortoise so high humidity would be bad. I must have misunderstood. I hear so many bad things about mold and humidity that I just assumed. They are in a glass tank with an open top. I pour water over all their entire enclosure about once a week but it dries pretty fast. They have a thin layer of eco earth so it dries quickly. I've had a box of moist substrate in there for about a year but they never use it. Their outdoor enclosure has a structure that they can go down into the earth a bit and that is quite humid. They don't get outside much due to living in the tundra of ND though.

 

[Tom]

People who raise sulcatas and leopards are usually under that same impression. The humidity thing applies to pancakes too. Babies need high humidity. Adults do fine with the dryness. I bought a bunch of pancake babies for a friend three years ago. Some were already pyramiding even though they were small. He kept them covered and offered a good humid hide and they all gradually smoothed out. He's a long time reptile guy too. He was a bit incredulous when I explained it all, but we are good friends and he trusted my word, plus he'd seen MY leopards and sulcatas in my swampy enclosures. He was pleasantly surprised at the gradual improvement, and they look pretty good now. Your guys are pretty far along now. Changing things at this point won't make much difference. But if you ever try again...

 

[johanna]

Does this affect them health wise or is it just an aesthetic thing?

 

[EchoTheLeoTort]

The main thing I think that would affect health wise is MBD, this might not be right but i think pyramiding could possibly mean MBD might be happening. BUT considering you provide UVB and they go outside, I really sincerely doubt your torts have or will ever have MBD. Pyramiding just means the bone is somewhat spongier than normal. But there are many tortoises out there that are pyramided and still live wonderfully long lives. Mostly it is just a cosmetic thing, if you can handle the bumps being there no worries. They should be just fine Personally, i think your torts are beautiful. ... And tell me about it... I live in south dakota with a leopard tortoise so hard to get them outside enough in summer, and we have such a short time to get them out as well!

 

[CourtneyG]

I recently purchased a little female who had some pyramiding to her shell. I made her a humid hide that she sleeps in all the time out of the plastic containers that her spring greens come in. She is in a glass tank, an it is very hard to keep it humid. I don any of us would judge you, it sounds like you take great care of them, just a bit ignorant on one little detail. But that is what we are here for, to help people understand things and make their torts life even better!

 

[EKLC]

If they are eating well and growing, then are probably healthy. It is the very dehydrated tortoises that suffer organ damage. I believe that some tortoises are raised in such a way that they pyramid, but are also hydrated enough for it not to pose a serious health risk.

A box with a few inches of substrate and a heat lamp is not a good model of a savannah, or any other biome. It is just way too desiccating.