Question about excessive medication and if there are alternatives

[erad]

Hi everyone, I have a Russian Toroise named Rocky. He had puffy eyes and an overgrown beak so I took him to the vet. The final diagnoses was respiratory infection and vitamin A deficiency. He prescribed him 15 shots of .4 mg of baytril, which in my opinion is excessive.

The reason I think its excessive is because I looked up side effects of respiratory infection in tortoises and it involves them sneezing and blowing bubbles out of their nose, being inactive etc. None of those symptoms were displayed by my tortoise. He is as active as ever, eats a lot (inside and outside). The only thing I see wrong with him are the puffy eyes, and he makes some strange noises when I soak him. I think its him clearing water out of his nose, I could be wrong.

Baytril is very painful for him and I hate to stick him, cause it stresses him out to no end. So I was hoping to get some advice from an expert online before I begin the medication. Also was wondering if there is an alternative way to administer the medicine orally, cause I really hate the idea of piercing him with a needle and injecting him with fluid that will numb one of his limbs and put him through extreme pain. Not to mention the vet arrived at his diagnosis by grilling me with questions, so its almost as if I diagnosed him myself. He never ran any stool samples or blood tests, just stuck a camera in his face and looked for mucus, which was very hard to find.

Thanks for any replies, I really appreciate it

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi erad:

Welcome to the Tortoise Forum!!

What would you like us to call you?

and may we know appx. where in the world you are?

This past winter has been hard on the turtles and tortoises. It's been so mild that they either woke up too soon, or didn't go fully into the brumation mode.

What did your vet suggest for the swollen eyes? My recipe for this is to soak in baby food water. Take a jar of Gerber strained carrots and mix it with warm water in a small tub with tall sides. Leave the tortoise soaking for about a half hour. You should see an improvement in the eyes in about 3 days.

You can administer Baytril orally. Either inject it into a strawberry, or pry his mouth open and squirt it down his throat. I much prefer this method. You can also dilute it 9 parts saline solution to one part Bartril and squirt it into each nostril.

Did the vet file the beak?

 

[foxboysracing]

If the sick turtle is still eating, I find that injecting a worm and then watching the turtle eat it works very well for me. If it is a large amount of Baytril, sometimes I will inject 2 worms. It has worked great for me. Baytril is the best at getting rid of infections. Don't be afraid of it, as long as you don't use it regularly. You would never want your turtles to become immune to it. But, if they need it, by all means give it. It can get rid of an URI safely and effectively. And by feeding it, you avoid the painful injections.

 

[Tom]

To be honest, I have seen so many incompetent vets and incorrect detrimental diagnoses, that I am a bit cynical. I share your thoughts on the matter based on what you have said, but I have not seen the tortoise and I certainly have no medical degree. Given the symptoms you describe I would follow Yvonne's suggestion and also warm up the temps. You can add a little yams or carrot to the diet for a while too and most importantly get him out in the sunshine. Often these things can be corrected with good husbandry. If you can find the cause of these problems and eliminate it, often drugs will not be needed.

What are you using for UV while he is indoors?
Did you hibernate him this year?
What are his four temps? Cool side, warm side, basking spot and night?
Where in the world are you?

 

[dmmj]

Puffy eyes are usually the first sign, as the RI progresses, the symptoms get worse and harder to treat. I can't comment on the baytrill, but did the vet offer other options besides injections? like a nose drop? or by mouth

 

[Madkins007]

A couple of thoughts...

There are two kinds of respiratory infection- upper and lower. The classic 'cold' symptoms are upper, the symptoms for 'lower' are more like pneumonia and harder to detect. Did your vet specify which he was going for?

While Baytril helps in many ways, some aspects of an RI are viral and antibiotics do not work against those.

You should check with your vet to see if taking the meds orally would work as well as injecting them- there is usually a reason for the administration method they select. Going orally may not deliver the same dose to the same regions (for example, the effects of the stomach acids may affect the dosage).

I guess the bottom line is do you trust your vet or not?

 

[ascott]

Okay, my turn

I get very annoyed when a vet says a tortoise has a RI when no test is done to confirm the diagnosis.....now, there are times when you have a tort that is clearly in distress due to RI, lethargic, not eating, not moving much, eyes rarely open because they are out of it, mucus snot oozing out of their nose...bubbles out of the nose and eyes, etc....obviously then I can see an off the cuff diagnosis and agree antibiotics are in order (also, if you give the shot with a second person assisting you the trauma is greatly decreased--also increase soaking to daily warm water soaks during treatment duration as antibiotics are hard on their kidneys and other organs)....

Are you giving the injection rotating from one arm to the other so not one arm becoming a pin cushion....also you are doing the shots in the front right (between the neck and front leg in the thinner skin area....not the back legs?

However, if your Rocky only had puffy eyes and an over grown beak this is where I get annoyed by an immediate diagnosis of RI especially when no testing done to confirm....you said that they said vitamin A deficiency ? Did they give your tortoise a vitamin A injection?

I would follow what Yvonne suggested alone with adding food that has large amounts of vitamin A nutritional value with every feeding along with the baby food soaks....

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I would follow what Yvonne suggested alone

ooopppsss....the word "alone" should have been "along"...