- Joined
- Mar 15, 2010
- Messages
- 903
i have been thinking lately about split scutes. i've tried to do some online research but i just keep ending up with the same answers: "it could possibly be genetic" and "it could be inconsistencies or too high temps during incubation," which i already knew those two. but even these two theories have holes in them, in m OP. if the temps or something else in the incubator was wrong, then all the babies would have split scutes, right? or if it was genetic, then more than just "one random baby every so often" would have them too, right? just my own personal observations and questions. i have a new question that i haven't been able to find that has been addressed anywhere:
could split scutes be a result of a sort-of "tortoise over-breeding" so to speak? not like it's harmful in any way to breed tortoises as much as we do, i'm not saying that at all, but i wanted to know if anyone has any information on about how often tortoises breed in the wild? in the wild, they live as solitary creatures, and rarely come upon other tortoises. so, it leads me to believe that they would mate WAY less in the wild than they do being in the same enclosure with 1 or 2 males and 2-5 females. this amount of breeding, while not seeming (and i don't personally believe it is) harmful in any way whatsoever, is bound to produce some less-than-perfect babies, i should think.
(close your eyes for this next paragraph if you're not comfortable reading about the birds and the bees!)
so, my own personal thought process has led me down this path:
in human and beast alike, the best sperm always race to the finish line to be the first little wigglers to the egg, therefore ensuring the best possible chances for survival with the best possible candidates. as much breeding as a tortoise in the wild may do, compared to as much breeding as a tortoise in captivity may do, i have come into the idea that there must be more chances for a "less than perfect" little sperm to reach an egg. and since a female tortoise actually has the ability to with hold her eggs until the time and place is right, (up to three years i believe is the time frame) i now am disposed to believe that our females may be full up with as much sperm as they can handle, so because of that they expel as many eggs as they can get out of themselves at one time.
now, because of that thought process, i've also begun to wonder if they might have the ability to choose, to a certain extent, which eggs to lay? like, say you have a batch of 15 perfectly formed and thriving little baby hatchlings, but one has a split scute. not to say that this baby has less of a chance to survive or is less healthy, but i could call it a "sacrificial egg," as in, laying so many "perfect" babies and one "imperfect" baby, in order to try to give the other babies the best chance at survival, with the one extra baby being given up to great numbers, in the chance that that baby will be eaten, sparing one other baby the chance of survival.
we've seen it for sure in the inter-mixing of species, the two particular instances i am remembering are p.babcoki (sp?) breeding with p.pardalis (sp again?) and sullies bred with leopards, that the females can produce both pure species and the intermixed species in the same clutch. we've also speculated about "who's your daddy" lol, as in a single clutch of eggs from a female may have several different fathers, so this also helps me believe that a female may have the ability to choose which eggs she produces and when she does it. i believe that this would also help to keep the species as little inter-bred as possible, with releasing several eggs in the same clutch with different fathers, if two of those babies should happen to meet up again and mate, the chances of them coming from the same mother AND father would be less, so this would also help insure the survival of the species.
now, this is all just simply my thought process and my speculations, i'm not claiming any of this for fact!! but i do want to know what you guys think about it though!
could split scutes be a result of a sort-of "tortoise over-breeding" so to speak? not like it's harmful in any way to breed tortoises as much as we do, i'm not saying that at all, but i wanted to know if anyone has any information on about how often tortoises breed in the wild? in the wild, they live as solitary creatures, and rarely come upon other tortoises. so, it leads me to believe that they would mate WAY less in the wild than they do being in the same enclosure with 1 or 2 males and 2-5 females. this amount of breeding, while not seeming (and i don't personally believe it is) harmful in any way whatsoever, is bound to produce some less-than-perfect babies, i should think.
(close your eyes for this next paragraph if you're not comfortable reading about the birds and the bees!)
so, my own personal thought process has led me down this path:
in human and beast alike, the best sperm always race to the finish line to be the first little wigglers to the egg, therefore ensuring the best possible chances for survival with the best possible candidates. as much breeding as a tortoise in the wild may do, compared to as much breeding as a tortoise in captivity may do, i have come into the idea that there must be more chances for a "less than perfect" little sperm to reach an egg. and since a female tortoise actually has the ability to with hold her eggs until the time and place is right, (up to three years i believe is the time frame) i now am disposed to believe that our females may be full up with as much sperm as they can handle, so because of that they expel as many eggs as they can get out of themselves at one time.
now, because of that thought process, i've also begun to wonder if they might have the ability to choose, to a certain extent, which eggs to lay? like, say you have a batch of 15 perfectly formed and thriving little baby hatchlings, but one has a split scute. not to say that this baby has less of a chance to survive or is less healthy, but i could call it a "sacrificial egg," as in, laying so many "perfect" babies and one "imperfect" baby, in order to try to give the other babies the best chance at survival, with the one extra baby being given up to great numbers, in the chance that that baby will be eaten, sparing one other baby the chance of survival.
we've seen it for sure in the inter-mixing of species, the two particular instances i am remembering are p.babcoki (sp?) breeding with p.pardalis (sp again?) and sullies bred with leopards, that the females can produce both pure species and the intermixed species in the same clutch. we've also speculated about "who's your daddy" lol, as in a single clutch of eggs from a female may have several different fathers, so this also helps me believe that a female may have the ability to choose which eggs she produces and when she does it. i believe that this would also help to keep the species as little inter-bred as possible, with releasing several eggs in the same clutch with different fathers, if two of those babies should happen to meet up again and mate, the chances of them coming from the same mother AND father would be less, so this would also help insure the survival of the species.
now, this is all just simply my thought process and my speculations, i'm not claiming any of this for fact!! but i do want to know what you guys think about it though!