Re-homing back to California, Advise... Please

[Sandy Murrieta]

Hello, I'm going to give a little back ground so you understand my situation. Last August, 2017. My patents moved from Norwalk, CA to Missouri. They have a California desert tortious. Unsure of his age, he's about 12 inches, maybe more. I do know my mother raised him from a hatchling. A client of mine, he's a turtle rescue person, he told me that their move could be dangerous heath wise for the turtle because of the change in type of weather. I passed this on to my mother. Last month my mother informed me that Harley is not eating well. I expressed that I wanted him and would take him when she is ready for me to. It seems I will be getting him the end of this month (September). I've been quickly trying to research what I need to do to be ready for him. I live in Murrieta, it's still hot during the day @ 90°+ F and the evenings get cool, in the 60's F. I read someplace that your first year of acquiring a tortoise you should not let him hibernate? How will I know if he's healthy enough to hibernate? So I guess I'm looking for some advise. I figured that if it's ok for him to hibernate I would prepare his bed to be inside this year since I'm not prepared to have his den ready outside. If it's not wise this year to hibernate then how or what do I do to keep him from hibernating? Thank you in advance for your advise.

 

[Yvonne G]

Let me be sure I understand. . . he hatched in CA, moved to Missouri and is now coming back to CA?

Since the tortoise has been in your family and you will have contact with his previous owner, I think it would be ok to allow him to hibernate. It will take a couple weeks for him to settle in to his new home. When the time comes he needs to be in a cool, dry place where rain doesn't reach.

 

[Sandy Murrieta]

Yes, born and raised, up until Aug 2017 in California.

Since my yard, his new home will not be ready to hibernate I do plan to bring him indoors. Just not sure if he'll be in the garage or closet in my downstairs spare room.
How will I know he's the right weight and ready to safety stop eating to hibernate?

Back to looking for tips. Trying to find ideas to make a good shelter so he can safely hibernate next season. Like to do it right the first time and not have to redue it later, lol
Can't figure out if heat is needed for this area. If so, what type of source? Lamp, pad or...? We do get cold, during the winter it can get really cold in the evenings. I've only seen 1 year where we had snow. (It's always been the one thing I love about Murrieta, hot during the day and cold at night.) Insulating his home seems to be the thing. How deep should I go to frame in a den. What do they like to burrow in, straw, sand, leaves, dirt? I've seen mice or rats scurrying the fence of my neighbors. We have black widows, brown recluse all around and with crazy amounts of ants. I'm getting DE food grade, I read that it works on ants and spiders and won't bring harm to animals. Unsure what to do about the mice/rats. I feel like there is so much to do in this short time. (Reason for inside hibernation this year)

Thank you

 

[Yvonne G]

If your area gets much winter rain, it's better to box him up in shredded paper and put him in a cool closet or in the garage for the winter.

You're right to worry about rats and tortoise hibernation. Rats sometimes chew on brumating tortoises. Another reason to box them up and keep him indoors for brumation. Place D-con poison around on the floor of the closet he's brumating in.

I don't think you'll need heat at night in the summer. As long as he can get his core temperature back up above 80F degrees during the day, he should be ok without heat at night. But if you're not comfortable with that, you can place a CHE on a timer inside his hiding place and have it turn on about 10p and go off about 8a.

Dried leaves, cypress mulch, dirt - all good choices. No sand though. Spiders don't seem bothered by tortoises, and vice versa.

CHE (Ceramic Heat Emitter):

 

[Sandy Murrieta]

My mom had a few different types of turtles. Some box type turtles that I found in Arkansas when I was a kid. They had their own outdoor made habitat. (Separate but in the yard, they could all see either) then there was Carl, an extremely large 100-200 lb guy, way to big for me to take on. He had the biggest part of the yard. They were able to find a home for him before the move, through the turtle rescue near them. Then Harley, I know he was her baby that was why she didn't want to give him to me before they moved. I told her I have a great yard for him, but I just couldn't convince her. I'm going to get more info on what he's use to later, I do know she garaged him every night because of wild animals and the Missouri elements and lack of a fensed yard. In California he had a small insulated dog house. I guess this will be a learning process for me.

My mom said Harley is not eating like he normally would. Could he miss the other turtle even though it was a male too. They were never aloud to roam freely at the same time, because they would fight but they all knew of each others existence. I don't know the temperament of turtles. Was thinking if that were the case maybe next season I would adopt a female his size? Do they need buddies?

 

[Yvonne G]

No, tortoises are not herd animals. They are solitary, preferring to own their territory. When another tortoise enters their territory it's a fight to chase him out, and sometimes a loser ends up on his back and dies. On another note - it is illegal to knowingly breed desert tortoises or to artificially incubate their eggs, so it's not a good idea to be thinking of getting him a mate.

Your mom might be putting human feelings on the tortoise. He may have slowed down his eating because it has been extremely hot lately, but it's certainly not because the sulcata has been placed in a new home.

 

[Sandy Murrieta]

I've got another question. I've got a burweed problem. Is this weed harmful to California Desert tortoise?
Burweed is the bothersome weed that forms a small round prickly sticker when it dries up in the summer. It's not as bad this year as it was last year, over a year ago when I thought I was going to get the larger turtle I did a weed and seed treatment to my lawn.

 

[Yvonne G]

Burr clover is edible. But because I don't like how the burrs get stuck in the cats' fur or how they feel when stepped on, I try to pull them out by the roots.

 

[Sandy Murrieta]

No, tortoises are not herd animals. They are solitary, preferring to own their territory. When another tortoise enters their territory it's a fight to chase him out, and sometimes a loser ends up on his back and dies. On another note - it is illegal to knowingly breed desert tortoises or to artificially incubate their eggs, so it's not a good idea to be thinking of getting him a mate.

Your mom might be putting human feelings on the tortoise. He may have slowed down his eating because it has been extremely hot lately, but it's certainly not because the sulcata has been placed in a new home.

You may have gotten confused because of all the facts I gave in my intro. The California desert tortious is now in Missouri, hot but more humid. As I was explained by a turtle rescue guy, the CDT should not have been removed because of the difference in dampness. I may have understood wrong but what he explained was since Missouri is so humid, more than what he's use to, the tortoise may come down with respiratory issues or water in the lungs. As for his behavioral or eating habits. She would be more of his expert since she sees and deals with him daily. He lost his large, horse property yard, free run. Their new home does not have fences. So most days he is fensed in what I'd call a dog run or play yard. They have a cellar that walks out to the ground floor which is under the sun deck. (A large area which you can park a tractor, golf cart and a cord of wood) Which it sounds like they bricked it in to now house the CDT. Mom said she's come out a couple times and he's flipped himself over trying to get out. (Not good) but in my opinion is a cooler, damp area, not ideal for Harley. (With all the research I've been doing, it seems his system may be just getting ready to hibernate. Because Missouri actually has seasons and his nice sunny area is now cooler his body may be adjusting?? Here in California we have longer summers so mom may not realize hibernation comes sooner their? I'm just happy he's coming to live with me.

Excuse my ignorance, but if the CDT is becoming extinct why would it be bad to breed or allow to do what natural? Or to incubate their eggs? So the poor CDT has to stay celibate, or abort the eggs? I don't mean disrespect, so please excuse the questions, my thought is if this beautiful breed is going extinct in the wild, it would be a shame to not allow the natural process even if it's in captivity? Me, I don't have the time to want to become a turtle breeder. I do agree that most pet stores should not be allowed to sell animals because of the inhumane way they are bread. I also feel the majority of families should not be allowed to purchase. Most animal owners get an animal then lose interest and don't take care. Now I'm just ranting on... Sorry.

 

[Sandy Murrieta]

Good afternoon,
I spoke to my mother today and it's been confirmed, Harley will be coming to live with me at the end of this month. I did find out he's about 14 years old.

I shared I've been doing a lot of research mainly on housing and feeding. Today I found the answer to my question above on breading. Like I said I didn't understand why you could not allow turtles to do what's natural. I don't have a female, so breading is not a issue but I wasn't sure if having a friend may be good? Yvonne , thank you for answering that. They are not hurd animals, and are solitary.

For anyone out there new that was interested in getting a mate for babies, I found this link useful since I didn't have a response to my lack of knowledge as to why you shouldn't. http://tortoisegroup.org/desert-tortoise-laws/ I know most of you already know the laws and rules. But I'm a newbie and I don't want to be ignorant. I don't want to kill my turtle because I gave him scraps of my love of avocados. Back to research to gain more safe and healthy info!

Question: I read somewhere that if you register the CDT they get heath care? But I have not found anything to back that up, lol (sorry if that sounds like a stupid question, but I was taught the stupid questing was the question not asked) I don't believe Harley was ever registered. What would be the benefit?

Have a blessed day, Sandy

 

[Tim Carlisle]

Good afternoon,
I spoke to my mother today and it's been confirmed, Harley will be coming to live with me at the end of this month. I did find out he's about 14 years old.

YAY!

 

[orv]

Good afternoon,
I spoke to my mother today and it's been confirmed, Harley will be coming to live with me at the end of this month. I did find out he's about 14 years old.

I shared I've been doing a lot of research mainly on housing and feeding. Today I found the answer to my question above on breading. Like I said I didn't understand why you could not allow turtles to do what's natural. I don't have a female, so breading is not a issue but I wasn't sure if having a friend may be good? Yvonne , thank you for answering that. They are not hurd animals, and are solitary.

For anyone out there new that was interested in getting a mate for babies, I found this link useful since I didn't have a response to my lack of knowledge as to why you shouldn't. http://tortoisegroup.org/desert-tortoise-laws/ I know most of you already know the laws and rules. But I'm a newbie and I don't want to be ignorant. I don't want to kill my turtle because I gave him scraps of my love of avocados. Back to research to gain more safe and healthy info!

Question: I read somewhere that if you register the CDT they get heath care? But I have not found anything to back that up, lol (sorry if that sounds like a stupid question, but I was taught the stupid questing was the question not asked) I don't believe Harley was ever registered. What would be the benefit?

Have a blessed day, Sandy

Certainly they get health care. But this isn't Obama care . . . so you'll have to pay for it yourself. Their are some very qualified tortoise vets not far from you. I use a great one down Rancho Bernardo way; I do have to pay full price at the time of service, however. You pay for what you get.

 

[Sandy Murrieta]

Yesterday my dad dropped off Hardly. He did well on the road trip.
He began eating again. He stopped about a week ago in Missouri. But he is doing well, adjusting to his new environment. He had no problem finding his bed. Today he was slow to rise, but it's not a hot day, of course. But with the help of his favorite green beans he came out and munched a few, walked the yard and back to bed. So I guess now I'm truly a member.

 

[Big Charlie]

Yesterday my dad dropped off Hardly. He did well on the road trip.
He began eating again. He stopped about a week ago in Missouri. But he is doing well, adjusting to his new environment. He had no problem finding his bed. Today he was slow to rise, but it's not a hot day, of course. But with the help of his favorite green beans he came out and munched a few, walked the yard and back to bed. So I guess now I'm truly a member.

That's great news! I'm sure he loves his new home.

 

[Sandy Murrieta]

Harley is doing better than I, lol he's spoiled and a creature of habit. I moved his home so that he'd get a little bit more warmth since our days have cooled down a bit. Yesterday either he was ticked and didn't want to go to his home because of the new locating or got lost? Once I took him out of the corner he was sulking in and pointed him toward his home then he went straight to bed. I've tried introducing new "tortoise" friendly foods but he only wants his green beans.

 

[EllieMay]

View attachment 253387 View attachment 253388 View attachment 253389
Harley is doing better than I, lol he's spoiled and a creature of habit. I moved his home so that he'd get a little bit more warmth since our days have cooled down a bit. Yesterday either he was ticked and didn't want to go to his home because of the new locating or got lost? Once I took him out of the corner he was sulking in and pointed him toward his home then he went straight to bed. I've tried introducing new "tortoise" friendly foods but he only wants his green beans.

I believe they are just a temperamental breed! I added some more substrate in one of mine’s hide. she had kicked all the old out of the back.. I guess she didn’t want more in it because she has been sulking in the corner too it sounds like y’all will settle in nicely though! Good luck [emoji1303]