Really worried about my tortoise and dont know how she was raised

Joined
Sep 17, 2022
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Banbridge
Hi so I have two tortoice however one I got a bit under 2 years ago and I dont know how she was raised for her first 3-4 years of her life and as such I cant acomidate her properly. She frequently wont eat enough food and doesn't really eat a variety of food (not that I'm confident on what's best for her diet wise). For instance one week she flat out refused to eat anything but freshly picked dandelion leaves and would starve herself if I tried to change her food. She had finally started eating more and a better veriety the past few months but the past weeks she is refusing all food and I'm not sure if this is her hybernating or if she has decided she doesn't want to eat any of the food she used to like. Last year she did hybernate so it is a possibility.
 

wellington

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We need a lot more info before we can give any help
Species for one.
How are they housed, together or separate?
What are the temps?
Basking?
All over?
Night?
What are you feeding?
What size enclosure do they have?
 

TammyJ

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Hi there. Can we see some pictures of your tortoises and enclosures please?
 

zolasmum

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Hi so I have two tortoice however one I got a bit under 2 years ago and I dont know how she was raised for her first 3-4 years of her life and as such I cant acomidate her properly. She frequently wont eat enough food and doesn't really eat a variety of food (not that I'm confident on what's best for her diet wise). For instance one week she flat out refused to eat anything but freshly picked dandelion leaves and would starve herself if I tried to change her food. She had finally started eating more and a better veriety the past few months but the past weeks she is refusing all food and I'm not sure if this is her hybernating or if she has decided she doesn't want to eat any of the food she used to like. Last year she did hybernate so it is a possibility.
Welcome.Where is Bainbridge? Is it in Northern Ireland?
Angie
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2022
Messages
11
Location (City and/or State)
Banbridge
We need a lot more info before we can give any help
Species for one.
How are they housed, together or separate?
What are the temps?
Basking?
All over?
Night?
What are you feeding?
What size enclosure do they have?
They are both Horsfield tortoice. They are housed together which has been a bit difficult of a transition since they were raised separate and my other tortoice is approaching sexual maturity the past few months however I have kept a close eye on his behaviour to her. I would need to double check the temp. I keep the light covering most of the enclosure however they have a separate room without it. I often keep the light on the same strength throughout the night as it's quite cold in our house at night. They get fed a large variety ranging from lettuce, rockets, occasionally cucomber pieces, brocoli, dandelion leaves and other leafy foods however different sites are now telling me foods that were once seen as good might be harmfuk.
 

lymcBoris

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Scotland
Hi there. Can we see some pictures of your tortoises and enclosures please?
They are both Horsfield tortoice. They are housed together which has been a bit difficult of a transition since they were raised separate and my other tortoice is approaching sexual maturity the past few months however I have kept a close eye on his behaviour to her. I would need to double check the temp. I keep the light covering most of the enclosure however they have a separate room without it. I often keep the light on the same strength throughout the night as it's quite cold in our house at night. They get fed a large variety ranging from lettuce, rockets, occasionally cucomber pieces, brocoli, dandelion leaves and other leafy foods however different sites are now telling me foods that were once seen as good might be harmfuk.
😟
 

wellington

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First get them separated. Tortoise, specially your species should not be kept on pairs.
The diet sounds fine, more variety would be better.
Still need the temps. They are important for you yo know along with the type of heating and lighting you use.
Your answers on heat and lighting tells us nothing specially if you have gotten info from other places, it's likely wrong.
 

lymcBoris

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Messages
129
Location (City and/or State)
Scotland
Hi so I have two tortoice however one I got a bit under 2 years ago and I dont know how she was raised for her first 3-4 years of her life and as such I cant acomidate her properly. She frequently wont eat enough food and doesn't really eat a variety of food (not that I'm confident on what's best for her diet wise). For instance one week she flat out refused to eat anything but freshly picked dandelion leaves and would starve herself if I tried to change her food. She

Hi so I have two tortoice however one I got a bit under 2 years ago and I dont know how she was raised for her first 3-4 years of her life and as such I cant acomidate her properly. She frequently wont eat enough food and doesn't really eat a variety of food (not that I'm confident on what's best for her diet wise). For instance one week she flat out refused to eat anything but freshly picked dandelion leaves and would starve herself if I tried to change her food. She had finally started eating more and a better veriety the past few months but the past weeks she is refusing all food and I'm not sure if this is her hybernating or if she has decided she doesn't want to eat any of the food she used to like. Last year she did hybernate so it is a possibility.
Thread 'The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise' https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threa...ise-any-temperate-species-of-tortoise.183131/
 

Tom

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Hi so I have two tortoice however one I got a bit under 2 years ago and I dont know how she was raised for her first 3-4 years of her life and as such I cant acomidate her properly. She frequently wont eat enough food and doesn't really eat a variety of food (not that I'm confident on what's best for her diet wise). For instance one week she flat out refused to eat anything but freshly picked dandelion leaves and would starve herself if I tried to change her food. She had finally started eating more and a better veriety the past few months but the past weeks she is refusing all food and I'm not sure if this is her hybernating or if she has decided she doesn't want to eat any of the food she used to like. Last year she did hybernate so it is a possibility.
What you describe sounds like the effects of chronic stress of living as a pair. Groups can sometimes work in large outdoor enclosures, but never pairs, and never in small indoor enclosures.

Pet shops give terrible advice and usually sell you the wrong products. If that is what has happened here, then it may be a contributing factor as well. What bulbs are you using and what are your four temperatures? Warm side, cool side, basking area directly under the bulb and over night low? What size is the enclosure? The store bought ones are all too small. This could also be a factor as tortoises rely on locomotion to move food through the gut, much like a horse does.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2022
Messages
11
Location (City and/or State)
Banbridge
Hi there. Can we see some pictures of your tortoises and enclosures please?

We need a lot more info before we can give any help
Species for one.
How are they housed, together or separate?
What are the temps?
Basking?
All over?
Night?
What are you feeding?
What size enclosure do they have?
If I have done it right you should see the specifics of the light I'm using. The exact measurements of the house and a picture of her
 

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Joined
Sep 17, 2022
Messages
11
Location (City and/or State)
Banbridge
What you describe sounds like the effects of chronic stress of living as a pair. Groups can sometimes work in large outdoor enclosures, but never pairs, and never in small indoor enclosures.

Pet shops give terrible advice and usually sell you the wrong products. If that is what has happened here, then it may be a contributing factor as well. What bulbs are you using and what are your four temperatures? Warm side, cool side, basking area directly under the bulb and over night low? What size is the enclosure? The store bought ones are all too small. This could also be a factor as tortoises rely on locomotion to move food through the gut, much like a horse does.
The specifics for the enclosure should be attached alond with the specifics for the light. I had gotten dandelion because sheldon had seemed lonely and had even flirted with a decrotive wooden carved tortoice however I had seen that two males together can lead to fighting. Sheldon seems fine with the enclosure so I didn't think it was that but he has been a bother towards her with him having reached some level of sectual maturity
 

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Joined
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Location (City and/or State)
Banbridge
The specific size of the enclosure as well as a picture of her should be attacked
 

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wellington

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No tortoise other than a hatching is fine with that enclosure. Even the wrong enclosure for hatchlings.
You need to give each one a 4x8 minimum enclosure.
They need to live apart.
I don't know that bulb. If its not a long tube uvb then it's wrong.
If you can't give each one a proper home then rehome one.
They come from miles of roaming space. A 4x8 is only a minimum because most can't or won't give larger.
Changes are needed.
I still can find where you gave the temps.
We need all the info requested!
 

Tom

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The specifics for the enclosure should be attached alond with the specifics for the light. I had gotten dandelion because sheldon had seemed lonely and had even flirted with a decrotive wooden carved tortoice however I had seen that two males together can lead to fighting. Sheldon seems fine with the enclosure so I didn't think it was that but he has been a bother towards her with him having reached some level of sectual maturity
Let me be more clear: Tortoises should never live in pairs. Russians are probably the worst species to do this with, and the sexes don't matter. That enclosure isn't even a quarter of the size needed for a single tortoise, much less two of them. I know this sounds harsh, but it is not intended to hurt your feelings. It is intended to HELP your tortoises. You have to know what is wrong in order to fix it, so I am bluntly, plainly telling you what is wrong. I realize the pet shop that sold you the second tortoise and all the wrong stuff is telling you otherwise, and look how much money you spent with them... I'm not selling anything. My only desire is for you to have happy healthy tortoises, and enjoy your tortoise keeping experience.

They need to be separated ASAP, and each one needs an enclosure that is at least 244x122cm. They won't suddenly drop dead in smaller quarters, as you have been seeing, but keeping tortoises in small enclosure has long lasting and chronically damaging effects. Much like a horse, tortoise require copious locomotion to keep things moving along well in the gut. Its not safe to let them roam the house or be loose in the garden, so as responsible tortoise keepers, we must provide them with enough space to move around and walk in their purpose built enclosures.

The 50 watt Chinese made bulb is not adequate. I don't know what it is, but it isn't enough. This is also a likely contributor to the problem. There are four elements to heating and lighting:
  1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
  2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
  3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
  4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.



Here is the correct care info for this species, and questions are welcome. You are welcome to ask well over 100 questions too! :)

I am sorry you got the wrong info previously, but if you let us help you, your tortoises will thank you.
 
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Banbridge
Firstly I am trying to make sure they both have a proper home and no longer trust the past information I have learned which is why I joined this group. Secondly I had gotten a second tortoice because my tortoice was showing strong signs of being lonely so that is why I have been trying to see if i can find a way for them to live together. Thirdly the bulb is correct as far as I've been told and is labelled for tortoice even if you dont know it. I will try to make all the necessary changes needed as soon as possible as I've been advised on here but please dont send a message laced with hostility at me for me being misinformed when I'm trying to improve. But thanks for the help.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2022
Messages
11
Location (City and/or State)
Banbridge
Let me be more clear: Tortoises should never live in pairs. Russians are probably the worst species to do this with, and the sexes don't matter. That enclosure isn't even a quarter of the size needed for a single tortoise, much less two of them. I know this sounds harsh, but it is not intended to hurt your feelings. It is intended to HELP your tortoises. You have to know what is wrong in order to fix it, so I am bluntly, plainly telling you what is wrong. I realize the pet shop that sold you the second tortoise and all the wrong stuff is telling you otherwise, and look how much money you spent with them... I'm not selling anything. My only desire is for you to have happy healthy tortoises, and enjoy your tortoise keeping experience.

They need to be separated ASAP, and each one needs an enclosure that is at least 244x122cm. They won't suddenly drop dead in smaller quarters, as you have been seeing, but keeping tortoises in small enclosure has long lasting and chronically damaging effects. Much like a horse, tortoise require copious locomotion to keep things moving along well in the gut. Its not safe to let them roam the house or be loose in the garden, so as responsible tortoise keepers, we must provide them with enough space to move around and walk in their purpose built enclosures.

The 50 watt Chinese made bulb is not adequate. I don't know what it is, but it isn't enough. This is also a likely contributor to the problem. There are four elements to heating and lighting:
  1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
  2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
  3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
  4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.



Here is the correct care info for this species, and questions are welcome. You are welcome to ask well over 100 questions too! :)

I am sorry you got the wrong info previously, but if you let us help you, your tortoises will thank you.
Thanks. I'll change it. I was hoping to see if they can be together but to be honest with the male tortoice acting up I have been discussing getting annother enclosure for the female so I'm glad that i can first find one the right size before getting her one that would be too small as well. It's kinda sad that they couldnt get along well enough but she has really brought him out of his shell and all so either way his confidence will last for some time. You wernt being harsh I had just read a message which seemed far more hostile than needed while this reply was actually helpful. Sorry if my lack of knowledge is infuriating but all the information I find is said to be wrong on annother site so I'm completely lost. If you dont mind my main concern right now is sorting out a good diet for them since both the websites and her eating habbits are inconsistent so if youd have ANY suggestions they would he greatly appreciated.
 

zolasmum

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I would just like to say that this forum is by far the most valuable there is in terms of knowledge and correct information - there are real experts here - not me, but ones who have many years of experience and study - just listen to them, and don't bother about other forums and what they think they know. If people here are a bit abrupt at times, it will be for good reason , and they will always try to help you.
Best wishes from Angie.
 
Joined
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Location (City and/or State)
Banbridge
I would just like to say that this forum is by far the most valuable there is in terms of knowledge and correct information - there are real experts here - not me, but ones who have many years of experience and study - just listen to them, and don't bother about other forums and what they think they know. If people here are a bit abrupt at times, it will be for good reason , and they will always try to help you.
Best wishes from A

I would just like to say that this forum is by far the most valuable there is in terms of knowledge and correct information - there are real experts here - not me, but ones who have many years of experience and study - just listen to them, and don't bother about other forums and what they think they know. If people here are a bit abrupt at times, it will be for good reason , and they will always try to help you.
Best wishes from Angie.
Yes Tom has given me useful information and related it in a helpful and kind way. And I have already started researching to make improvements. Thanks so much for helping me as I dont seem to be able to find a reliable site that isnt automatically corrected by the next
 
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