Red-eared sliders and American bullfrogs living together? (LONG THREAD)

[Tom]

Even in a large pond, where is a 30" koi supposed to escape from a red-eared slider?
It requires more than space to allow a vulnerable animal to escape. They need an actual safety refuge.

As you can see from this video, a frog living in the same enclosure as a turtle doesn't have to share the same space.

If we created a barrier between the frog and turtle, the frog would have little space to roam at night when the turtle sleeps.

But even if the frog is unable to escape from the turtle one day, I would probably be content knowing that it lived a pretty good life. Maybe not the same quantity of life as a bullfrog in an aquarium, but a more quality life.
I would definitely not name any animal that coexists with Teresa.

I don't know why you asked. We told you what we thought, but you seem to be trying to convince us, and yourself, otherwise. Go ahead and give it a try. Maybe it will work out for a while.

 

[Wayfarin]

I don't know why you asked. We told you what we thought, but you seem to be trying to convince us, and yourself, otherwise. Go ahead and give it a try. Maybe it will work out for a while.

Thanks for your input. I do need to hear from other people's experiences with red-eared sliders. Our turtle has never met a koi, pleco or bullfrog in her life, so I have no idea how she would react to any of those animals.
Some people have kept plecos and RES turtles together with no issues.

I guess what I'm looking for would be a terrible story of a red-eared slider that was living with a bullfrog as large as itself in a pond with lots of space, lots of food, lots of shelter, and safety refuges for the frog, that still savagely devoured it.

 

[Wayfarin]

The idea of keeping red-eared sliders and American bullfrogs together does not seem to be something that many people have tested in the first place. Many people have tried to keep RES with other turtles, goldfish, koi, cichlids, plecos, tiger barbs, and algae eaters, but only one person I can think of has tried keeping bullfrogs and red-eared sliders together, apparently with success.

www.turtleforum.com/forum/upload/index.php?/forums/topic/4321-turtles-and-frogs-together/

I'm not even sure if a red-eared slider would like the taste of their skin secretions. They don't seem to stop snapping turtles, though.

 

[TammyJ]

Hello, folks!

Some of you may already be acquainted with our turtle, as I've already introduced her on another thread.
We currently own a female red-eared slider named Teresa or "Terry" who's a little over 12 years old. We've had her for that long, and we suspect she could live many more years if she's cared for well.

View attachment 354182 And I hope she does.

She's a cherished pet that we had opportunities to give up on multiple occasions, but we never did. (This species is commonly dumped in waterways as an unwanted pet, where it either dies or becomes invasive.)
However, she's currently living in an undersized indoor tub, and I had thought about possibly moving her into a much larger outdoor enclosure.
We have the space for an enclosure at least 10' l x 5' w x 18" d in both our front and backyard.
I don't know how many gallons it would hold, but definitely over 200.

The drive to the nearest Petco is over an hour, be we still manage to go almost monthly to pick up pet supplies, including feeder minnows.
We noticed many mosquitofish in the tank of feeder goldfish. After talking with one of the workers, she said that they sometimes get unexpected animals in with the feeder shipments, including tadpoles. After looking this up, I found out that bullfrog tadpoles are often accidentally shipped to Petco and PetSmart stores. (I was actually aware that this happens, but I was surprised at how often this occurs.)

I would love to "save" one of the tadpoles from possibly being involved in a video titled "giant oscar eats bullfrog tadpole" or something similar.
However, if there's one thing I know about bullfrogs, it's the fact that like red-eared sliders, they are much harder to care for when fully grown and are often similarly dumped in waterways where they do not belong.

However, it had occurred to me that the outdoor enclosure that we had thought about moving "Terry" into would be an ideal location to relocate the frog when it inevitably outgrows its indoor setup.
It would have to be a pretty secure enclosure to contain a bullfrog, with a heavy mesh lid that it cannot open. The lid would also keep out raccoons.
However, the lid would not protect the frog from Teresa.

Bullfrogs grow up to 6" long when mature, and Teresa is not a very large turtle (she's about 8" in shell length), but I do not underestimate RES turtles.
However, I imagine that it would be easier to keep Teresa from eating the frog in an outdoor enclosure than in an indoor aquarium.
Since bullfrogs are nocturnal, the frog might be able to come out at night and avoid Teresa during the day if I provide it with a land retreat.

Even if this does work, I would probably not name the frog. I would be quite displeased if Teresa murders "Ferdinand" or "Fergus," or another family member. I've never before lost a family member to a another one's hunger.

Does anyone have any suggestions concerning this idea? Any input, especially from experience, would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance! God bless!

Hi again. After reading through this again, I have come to the conclusion that you might do well either not to get a "rescue" tadpole at all, or to get one and keep it separate from Theresa. She has been alone in the tank inside for a good while now, so I would let her have her nice big outside pond all to herself.

 

[Wayfarin]

Hi again. After reading through this again, I have come to the conclusion that you might do well either not to get a "rescue" tadpole at all, or to get one and keep it separate from Theresa. She has been alone in the tank inside for a good while now, so I would let her have her nice big outside pond all to herself.

That could possibly be what we would end up doing.

If creating a separate enclosure for the frog is too big of an investment, then we might not take on the responsibility of taking one in. It would be hard for me to resist taking one in since I can't imagine that the fates of the stowaway tadpoles would be good anyway. Even those that do want to adopt them as pets are rarely likely to want to keep the resulting giant frogs.

Both red-eared sliders and bullfrogs seem to have the same issue when kept in captivity. Someone wants to adopt a cute baby turtle or tadpole, no longer wants to keep them as adults, and dumps them.

I don't really think that Teresa would care about sharing her pond with a frog, since it's an animal that she would easily dominate or devour. The frog obviously would prefer to live without Teresa, but that is not an option.

Since the outdoor enclosure would probably have a small "mini pond" separate from Teresa's pond, then we could possibly put up a barrier between the pool and the pond and turn that into the bullfrog's enclosure.
The only negative would be that the frog would not have much space if we divided the enclosure.
I don't think that Terry would ever use the mini pond, but the frog would definitely use Terry's pond at night.

Adopting the tadpole would be more of a want, but providing Teresa with a better habitat is really a need.

 

[Wayfarin]

Also, depending on how secure the enclosure is designed, I may not be able to keep American bullfrogs OUT of it.
If I choose not to deliberately add a bullfrog to the pond, I would probably not go through all of the trouble to "bullfrog-proof" the enclosure, and young bullfrogs could find their way inside. As a matter of fact, we found a bullfrog in our front yard last year, and once even a painted turtle. It would probably keep wild turtles out, but I may not have any input on whether or not Terry shares the pond with the frogs.

 

[Wayfarin]

Koi are in large ponds and so was the pleco. Plenty of room to escape.

When it happens, you can think back to when we warned you.

(Unrelated to the discussion concerning the frog.)
Are you really sure the turtle was responsible for killing your pleco?

I'd imagine that the pleco couldn't die of old age, cold temperatures, overheating, disease, low oxygen conditions, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, stress, or even starvation (they can rarely survive on algae alone) without the turtle scavenging on it while it is weak.

 

[Wayfarin]

Looking back, I feel like this post was a waste of potential.

Bullfrogs have a habit of showing up at ponds themselves when they are welcomed or even uninvited, whether they are added to the pond as tadpoles or are native and migrating overland.

I should have simply asked how to help them survive and thrive and protect them from predation.
Asking if they "could" coexist is as stupid as asking if raccoons "could" coexist with turtles. They can, and they will coexist, but with conflict. Protecting them from predation is the real question, because who can keep frogs out of a pond? Or in a pond for that matter?

Most people with outdoor ponds get bullfrogs, and without adding them or even wanting them! There seem to be more people wanting to get rid of them than wanting them to stick around.

Housing Teresa outside would almost undoubtedly expose her to wild frogs and an assortment of other animals that she's never met before. Some are potential prey if they cannot get out of her way. Some would have her for dinner if she can't hide.