Red Foot dryness and the NEW Tort!

[tanker]

We got the "new" tort last night. This tort is a little bigger and actually eating and moving around, unlike the first little guy):
He does look dry though, his shell is chalky looking and his skin is a little flakey. I dont know how he was taken care of up until last night.
I have been misting him a few times and he did drank some this morning. His temps are around 85 and humidity is 70 or higher. The substrate is sphanum moss and coconut fiber mixed. I find it to be sticking to him is this ok? Would bark nuggets be better for him?
Im not stressing out, I just want to know what I can do to help with dryness.
Thanks

 

[rubes]

Im glad your new little guy is doing well! did you end up getting it from the same breeder? I find it hard to keep the humidity up here in Calgary, but I noticed that a cover and potted plants inside the enclosure really help.

 

[Kristina]

The substrate sticking a little is fine. I do not like the bark nuggets one bit, they are a horrible substrate in my opinion.

What I do with my little guy is spray him every time I walk by the enclosure. He gets misted at least three times a day, and sometimes as many as 10 or more, lol.

You can cover 2/3 to 3/4 of the enclosure with plexiglass, glass, or even plastic wrap to help keep the humidity higher.

 

[tanker]

Im glad your new little guy is doing well! did you end up getting it from the same breeder? I find it hard to keep the humidity up here in Calgary, but I noticed that a cover and potted plants inside the enclosure really help.
What kind of potted plants do you use? And what kind of substrate do you have?

 

[terryo]

I have a screen cover on top of the 40 gal breeder that I keep my little guy in. I cover the top with clear wrapping tape to hold in the humidity.

 

[goReptiles]

Be careful of letting the substrate get too wet. When I used coconut coir and moss it got too wet, which contributed to Domino's RI. I'm using cypress mulch now, and I'm seeing a difference, especially with the new babies I have. They don't walk around with their eyes clamped shut like Domino has always done.

 

[Tracy Gould]

I am glad to hear ur new tort is doing ok. I tried coconut coir and did not like it because it stuck to her and got in her water i use orchid bark now nd think its great. What did u call ur new Tort and can we have Pics?

 

[terryo]

I always keep the substrate dry. I just water the plants in their little pots, and then spray them and the tort when she come's out to eat. It always looks like a steam room in there and yet the substrate is mostly dry.

 

[rubes]

What kind of potted plants do you use? And what kind of substrate do you have?

I use baby tear plants, I got them from green gate. I buried the pots in the substrate before but my tortoise would trash the whole place so I bought suction cup baskets from the dollar store and now the tank looks better and she has more space. I'll try to post pics later

 

[PeanutbuttER]

What kind of potted plants do you use? And what kind of substrate do you have?

I use baby tear plants, I got them from green gate. I buried the pots in the substrate before but my tortoise would trash the whole place so I bought suction cup baskets from the dollar store and now the tank looks better and she has more space. I'll try to post pics later

I really like the way this sounds, but want to make sure that I'm right thinking what I am. Could you post a picture of your suction cup plants? I just realized that my tort table is tall enough that I could probably hang ground cover plants off the sides in like "window boxes". Eventually the plants would create sort of a mini-hide where the tort could sit under the box and the plants would be the side. Hope that made sense. I want to see what you did though, it sounds like a great idea.

 

[Madkins007]

I'm close to TerryO- my substrate is wet in the lower levels, but that is because I am using heat cables to create humidity and warm the substrate. If your substrate is ever cool or clammy, I would keep it as dry as I could and use other methods to humidity.

I know this is going to be a weird comment for a guy that loves research, but I don't like the sphagnum moss or coconut coir substrates and I don't have any proof of why.

It is my OPINION (but not a researched stance) that they are a.) too acidic, b.) get too wet, and c.) may contribute to plastron rot or other conditions. Part of this is probably because here in Omaha, it was just so hard to find the balance between keeping them damp and them drying out.

I am now using cypress, and have used a Bioactive Substrate, and heartily endorse both of them. (The bioactive is described in the Substrates section of the Tortoise Library in my sig.)

 

[Kristina]

There is a huge difference between damp and sloppy. There is nothing wrong with using either sphagnum moss or coco coir. The issue is that it should be damp but not so wet that you can wring water out of it. After you hydrate it, wring it out until you can't wring any more and then daily misting keeps it about perfect.

I have been keeping torts on the stuff for 17 years and not a single case of RI or plastron rot. Just don't turn the enclosure into a swamp and it should be fine.

 

[terryo]

When I first got Pio I was using Sphagnum moss like Terry K. said in his care sheet......wet it squeeze it out and fluff it up, he told me. It was never wet or soggy. He started to developed fungus, and it took a week of keeping him on paper towels to clear it up. I changed his substrate completely, added all the plants in their little pots, and kept the surface dry and just watered and misted the plants, and I haven't had a problem since. The humidity in Solo's enclosure is always in the high 80's and I still try very hard to keep the substrate as dry as I can.

 

[tanker]

What kind of potted plants do you use? And what kind of substrate do you have?

I use baby tear plants, I got them from green gate. I buried the pots in the substrate before but my tortoise would trash the whole place so I bought suction cup baskets from the dollar store and now the tank looks better and she has more space. I'll try to post pics later

I really like the way this sounds, but want to make sure that I'm right thinking what I am. Could you post a picture of your suction cup plants? I just realized that my tort table is tall enough that I could probably hang ground cover plants off the sides in like "window boxes". Eventually the plants would create sort of a mini-hide where the tort could sit under the box and the plants would be the side. Hope that made sense. I want to see what you did though, it sounds like a great idea.

Thats a great idea, If you could send pics that would help a lot. I am also wanting to plant the flowers into the substrate but not sure of how to do this???

 

[rubes]

Suction cup basket

this is the suction cup basket that I use with the baby tear pots, I stuffed the empty spaces with some sphagnum moss and I spray it every two days to keep the enclosure humid.
I have a couple of these in my tank and they actualy look great, they save a lot of space too!. I hope they will grow enough to cover the whole plastic basket.

 

[terryo]

What a great idea!! I saw those in bed bath and beyond. Something like shower soap holders. The baby tears grow like crazy. I just put the little pot in back of the wood hide, and let it hang over, but I am definitely going to try your idea. thank you. Solo loves hiding in them.

 

[PeanutbuttER]

Quick question, could the plastic holder be filled with potting soil and used as a pot? Or would it be better to place the pots in moss like you have it? I haven't had any real success trying to grow plants in an enclosure, but I like this idea because then I can use good potting soil and not try to plant my plants in coco coir or anything like that...

Plus, if the tort nibbles at the edges of the leaves, then it can only get so far. It can't kill the plant if it can't mow it to the ground. I'm very excited to give plants a shot again soon. This seems like a really cool idea.

 

[rubes]

Quick question, could the plastic holder be filled with potting soil and used as a pot? Or would it be better to place the pots in moss like you have it? I haven't had any real success trying to grow plants in an enclosure, but I like this idea because then I can use good potting soil and not try to plant my plants in coco coir or anything like that...

Plus, if the tort nibbles at the edges of the leaves, then it can only get so far. It can't kill the plant if it can't mow it to the ground. I'm very excited to give plants a shot again soon. This seems like a really cool idea.

Im sure you can use the plastic holder as a pot, the one I have has holes http://www.organizeit-online.com/images/2532.jpg but it would be easy to put something inside to hold the potting soil, or easier, maybe you can find a solid plastic holder without the holes.
I thought it was convenient becasue those pots shown in the picture are only 2" but your idea of converting the suction cup holder into a pot might work for bigger plants.

 

[terryo]

I just tried the plastic holder with the suction cups, and it wasn't good for me. I put it in a vivarium I used to grow some plants this morning to see how it would hold up. The humidity was too high, and the baby tears too heavy, so eventually the thing fell. I would be worried that it would fall on some torts head, so if you're going to use it keep your eye on it. Instead I got some damage-free hanging hooks. Very strong..just sticks on the side of the viv, and you can make a little hole right in the plastic pot and hook it in there. When you want to take it off, it just comes right off.

 

[Madkins007]

There is a huge difference between damp and sloppy. There is nothing wrong with using either sphagnum moss or coco coir. The issue is that it should be damp but not so wet that you can wring water out of it. After you hydrate it, wring it out until you can't wring any more and then daily misting keeps it about perfect.

I have been keeping torts on the stuff for 17 years and not a single case of RI or plastron rot. Just don't turn the enclosure into a swamp and it should be fine.

This is an example of why it is so hard to issue a 'everyone do it THIS way' statement that works. You are in Michigan, which experiences similar climate to mine, yet if I make my moss or coir wrung-out damp, it takes a lot more than a daily misting to keep it from drying out- even Terry K.'s mist and stir technique was inadequate.

This may be because of different indoor climates, different outdoor humidities, the difference in how we heat the habitats, how covered the top is, and so forth. Our house, for example, is generally kept rather cool and dry in the winter.

Right now, all of my little guys have clean plastrons on damp cypress, but all of my earlier Red-foots had some degree of rot or erosion on them when I was using moss and coir. I cannot state positively which was causing it, but if I had to guess, I would guess that the acidic moss was the main culprit.

So... since it is cheaper, works nicely for me in my awkward climate, and I struggled with moss and coir, I recommend cypress or other hardwood mulches, or a bioactive substrate- my all-time favorite so far. If anyone uses coir or moss, and it works for them, great!



Oddly, the Red-foot I had back in the 80's, before all the new care ideas came around, had no sign of plastron erosion on him, so whatever substrate I was using then worked pretty well. (While I cannot remember the substrate, I still have his shell, so can verify stuff like that. He was also only very mildly pyramided.)