Red Foot w RI, not eating

Duran

New Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
25
Location (City and/or State)
Atlanta
Greetings again,

I'm still struggling w my new redfoot, 4 inch purchased at a reptile show and given to me by my dad on Feb 28th. Farm raised in South America then moved up from FL.

I'll try to make this short.

Since day one, she was under weight and had bubbly nose and watery eyes.

Took her to the vet ASAP.

She was diagnosed w an RI and was started on five rounds every 72 hrs of Fortaz. Tomorrow will be her fourth.

She seemed to get better but has not been eating, maybe a a couple bites of banana and tomato but that's it.

Last Friday was her 2nd injection, the vet noticed she has been losing weight and so they did an assist feed and tested her stool-no parasites.

She regained energy but then Monday, she all of the sudden had bubbles coming out of her nose again! The vet said that sometimes this is a sign of them clearing out the infection. The vet (3rd injection) decided to also start her on amikacin, in addition to her Fortaz. And did another assist feed.

I might also mention, every time we have to go to the vet during the week, I have to bring her to work w me all day as the vet opens after I start work and it's 45mins away. So I head over right before they close. I keep her in a pet carrier w a heat pad and a towel to hide in and offer her food during my lunch-as well as a soak.

I'm concerned we are stressing her out too much. She's been traveling since I got her. Is this a valid concern?

Then there's the assist feeding, they said she was very sweet/tame and handled the feed just fine BUT then there was talk of implanting a feeding tube! The vets said she cant fight the infection if her body was very weak and malnourished. He suspects that she has been sick for a long time and probably not eaten almost anything in a month!

Also, I was looking at the bottom of her shell and it looks odd, shell rot? Well, I asked the vet on Monday and he said he didn't think so but it looks odd to me.

I have not been letting her enclosure temps drop below 85. She has food and water at all times inside, a hide, a ceramic heat emitter, and a Mercury vapor bulb. She's on coconut coir that I keep at 50/60...sometimes more right after I mist. I try to keep the top dry and the bottom moist.

I've offered Almost everything listed on the care sheets, even marzui. She looks at it and sometimes make a small attempt but gives up.

I made her a mush of all the food, thinking it might be easier to bite but nothing.

I soak her twice a day in warm water. One of the soaks is usually in an organic carrot baby food soak or I juice -safe greens- and mix w warm water and try to never let it get cold.

My questions/concerns are:
1. Should I tell the vet I want to give her a break after her last injection-instead of going and getting her a feeding tube implant? Or have her on more meds-he also mentioned starting her on herpes meds even though she has no signs-just in case-
2. How else can I get her to eat?
3. How long do these things usually last? The not eating and RI
4. I've read that some people order blood tests? Should I? There has been no mention of one.
5. An X-ray? At that point I'd have to drive over an hour away for one.
6. Does that look like shell rot?



So maybe it wasn't too short, my run down that is but I thank you in advance.

I'm trying everything and I really want her to out live me! ImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1426026347.674049.jpgImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1426026362.082224.jpgImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1426026405.537959.jpg
 

crimson_lotus

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
1,385
Location (City and/or State)
Massachusetts
I'm not an expert, but my tortoise did have pneumonia for a few months, and it does take a while for it to clear up. I think I went through 4 rounds of Fortaz (every 3 days for a month) before she was able to stop the medication. We had x-rays done of her lungs which proved she had pneumonia (upper respiratory infection) rather than a lower respiratory infection. The treatment for both from my understanding *and again, I'm not an expert, please someone correct me if I'm wrong* seems to be the same.

I would imagine your tortoise is very stressed out from both the shots and moving all the time and stress is not good for an ill tortoise. I think in your previous posts you said you could not inject her yourself, so you had to bring her to the vets every time? If possible, I would get someone else to inject her at home. This is just my opinion. Every time I took my tortoise to the vet, she would poop 8 times out of nervousness and she would have a runny nose from stress.

Not sure about the blood test or getting her to eat, I think not eating may also be stress related or from the medication. Have you tried Mazuri? My tortoise loves it, and I give her a meal of these tortoise pellets once a week as a treat. I've never seen her turn it down.
 

lismar79

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2013
Messages
2,995
Location (City and/or State)
Ohio USA
This is what I would do:
Baby food soaks- one can or half can of carrott or sweet potatoe baby food in her soak
Stop traveling with her, it is added stress
Keep temps up
Try hand feeding, mango, melons, strawberries. Anything bright orange or red
Anti fungle cream for the shell rot, just rub it on a couple times a day, at least it looks like rot to me.

Good luck!
 

crimson_lotus

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
1,385
Location (City and/or State)
Massachusetts
Oops I see you did try Mazuri, sorry about that...

and I think that might be the start of shell rot but I'm not certain. Hopefully someone more experienced will come along.
 

Duran

New Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
25
Location (City and/or State)
Atlanta
ImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1426031030.801321.jpg

Thanks for all the advice!

After talking to the vets, both are exotic vet specialist. I got really depressed and overwhelmed.

I will continue to offer her all types of foods in various formats (I even tried cat food and boiled eggs!) and soak her w added nutrients.

Also, I will talk to the vet tomorrow about doing the rest of the injections at home-the thought makes me want to vomit-needle phobia central in my head-but my partner who is only half the weenie I am, said he'd try. Is it hard? Hit/miss or straightforward? I'm afraid of squeezing air into her or hitting an organ.

ImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1426031679.739783.jpgImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1426031754.967461.jpg
 

dmmj

The member formerly known as captain awesome
10 Year Member!
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
19,695
Location (City and/or State)
CA
Antibiotics will throw a tortoise off eating, as for how long it is hard to say. It really will take as long as it needs to, could be a week or two, or a few months, sorry. I would do baby food soaks right now to keep the strength up, and contnue offering food everyday.
 

ascott

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
16,138
Location (City and/or State)
Apple Valley, California
Greetings again,

I'm still struggling w my new redfoot, 4 inch purchased at a reptile show and given to me by my dad on Feb 28th. Farm raised in South America then moved up from FL.

I'll try to make this short.

Since day one, she was under weight and had bubbly nose and watery eyes.

Took her to the vet ASAP.

She was diagnosed w an RI and was started on five rounds every 72 hrs of Fortaz. Tomorrow will be her fourth.

She seemed to get better but has not been eating, maybe a a couple bites of banana and tomato but that's it.

Last Friday was her 2nd injection, the vet noticed she has been losing weight and so they did an assist feed and tested her stool-no parasites.

She regained energy but then Monday, she all of the sudden had bubbles coming out of her nose again! The vet said that sometimes this is a sign of them clearing out the infection. The vet (3rd injection) decided to also start her on amikacin, in addition to her Fortaz. And did another assist feed.

I might also mention, every time we have to go to the vet during the week, I have to bring her to work w me all day as the vet opens after I start work and it's 45mins away. So I head over right before they close. I keep her in a pet carrier w a heat pad and a towel to hide in and offer her food during my lunch-as well as a soak.

I'm concerned we are stressing her out too much. She's been traveling since I got her. Is this a valid concern?

Then there's the assist feeding, they said she was very sweet/tame and handled the feed just fine BUT then there was talk of implanting a feeding tube! The vets said she cant fight the infection if her body was very weak and malnourished. He suspects that she has been sick for a long time and probably not eaten almost anything in a month!

Also, I was looking at the bottom of her shell and it looks odd, shell rot? Well, I asked the vet on Monday and he said he didn't think so but it looks odd to me.

I have not been letting her enclosure temps drop below 85. She has food and water at all times inside, a hide, a ceramic heat emitter, and a Mercury vapor bulb. She's on coconut coir that I keep at 50/60...sometimes more right after I mist. I try to keep the top dry and the bottom moist.

I've offered Almost everything listed on the care sheets, even marzui. She looks at it and sometimes make a small attempt but gives up.

I made her a mush of all the food, thinking it might be easier to bite but nothing.

I soak her twice a day in warm water. One of the soaks is usually in an organic carrot baby food soak or I juice -safe greens- and mix w warm water and try to never let it get cold.

My questions/concerns are:
1. Should I tell the vet I want to give her a break after her last injection-instead of going and getting her a feeding tube implant? Or have her on more meds-he also mentioned starting her on herpes meds even though she has no signs-just in case-
2. How else can I get her to eat?
3. How long do these things usually last? The not eating and RI
4. I've read that some people order blood tests? Should I? There has been no mention of one.
5. An X-ray? At that point I'd have to drive over an hour away for one.
6. Does that look like shell rot?



So maybe it wasn't too short, my run down that is but I thank you in advance.

I'm trying everything and I really want her to out live me! View attachment 121503View attachment 121504View attachment 121505



http://deserttortoisetales.blogspot.com/

There are a variety of ways to offer the injection,,,,since you are not well versed at it...I would stay away from the rear legs entirely--there are too many things that can go wrong in that area....
 

ascott

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
16,138
Location (City and/or State)
Apple Valley, California
Greetings again,

I'm still struggling w my new redfoot, 4 inch purchased at a reptile show and given to me by my dad on Feb 28th. Farm raised in South America then moved up from FL.

I'll try to make this short.

Since day one, she was under weight and had bubbly nose and watery eyes.

Took her to the vet ASAP.

She was diagnosed w an RI and was started on five rounds every 72 hrs of Fortaz. Tomorrow will be her fourth.

She seemed to get better but has not been eating, maybe a a couple bites of banana and tomato but that's it.

Last Friday was her 2nd injection, the vet noticed she has been losing weight and so they did an assist feed and tested her stool-no parasites.

She regained energy but then Monday, she all of the sudden had bubbles coming out of her nose again! The vet said that sometimes this is a sign of them clearing out the infection. The vet (3rd injection) decided to also start her on amikacin, in addition to her Fortaz. And did another assist feed.

I might also mention, every time we have to go to the vet during the week, I have to bring her to work w me all day as the vet opens after I start work and it's 45mins away. So I head over right before they close. I keep her in a pet carrier w a heat pad and a towel to hide in and offer her food during my lunch-as well as a soak.

I'm concerned we are stressing her out too much. She's been traveling since I got her. Is this a valid concern?

Then there's the assist feeding, they said she was very sweet/tame and handled the feed just fine BUT then there was talk of implanting a feeding tube! The vets said she cant fight the infection if her body was very weak and malnourished. He suspects that she has been sick for a long time and probably not eaten almost anything in a month!

Also, I was looking at the bottom of her shell and it looks odd, shell rot? Well, I asked the vet on Monday and he said he didn't think so but it looks odd to me.

I have not been letting her enclosure temps drop below 85. She has food and water at all times inside, a hide, a ceramic heat emitter, and a Mercury vapor bulb. She's on coconut coir that I keep at 50/60...sometimes more right after I mist. I try to keep the top dry and the bottom moist.

I've offered Almost everything listed on the care sheets, even marzui. She looks at it and sometimes make a small attempt but gives up.

I made her a mush of all the food, thinking it might be easier to bite but nothing.

I soak her twice a day in warm water. One of the soaks is usually in an organic carrot baby food soak or I juice -safe greens- and mix w warm water and try to never let it get cold.

My questions/concerns are:
1. Should I tell the vet I want to give her a break after her last injection-instead of going and getting her a feeding tube implant? Or have her on more meds-he also mentioned starting her on herpes meds even though she has no signs-just in case-
2. How else can I get her to eat?
3. How long do these things usually last? The not eating and RI
4. I've read that some people order blood tests? Should I? There has been no mention of one.
5. An X-ray? At that point I'd have to drive over an hour away for one.
6. Does that look like shell rot?



So maybe it wasn't too short, my run down that is but I thank you in advance.

I'm trying everything and I really want her to out live me! View attachment 121503View attachment 121504View attachment 121505


Also, was the tortoise tested and then diagnosed? Or did the vet only do a visual examination? Then say the tort has RI?
If it were me, I would not stress the tort out by the invasive tube feeding...very aggressive and invasive for such a private animal....I would continue to do the soaks (one regular warm water and then one with the baby food as you are) I also would keep the enclosure no less than 80 and also would provide a hot/basking spot that gets up to 95-100 so that the tort can choose to warm the body temp up....appetite can be affected by stress as well as no place to properly get enough heat to generate appetite....so the basking spot will allow the tort to do that....I would allow the tort some peace and quiet outside of the soaking times....just what I would do...
 

Duran

New Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
25
Location (City and/or State)
Atlanta
Also, was the tortoise tested and then diagnosed? Or did the vet only do a visual examination? Then say the tort has RI?
If it were me, I would not stress the tort out by the invasive tube feeding...very aggressive and invasive for such a private animal....I would continue to do the soaks (one regular warm water and then one with the baby food as you are) I also would keep the enclosure no less than 80 and also would provide a hot/basking spot that gets up to 95-100 so that the tort can choose to warm the body temp up....appetite can be affected by stress as well as no place to properly get enough heat to generate appetite....so the basking spot will allow the tort to do that....I would allow the tort some peace and quiet outside of the soaking times....just what I would do...


Initially, The vet did a visual diagnosis. On Monday there were bubbles and her mouth was slimy-both clear mucus but none of the mucus was tested.

But the past two days she's been clear.

I agree that the feeding tube sounds too aggressive and I feel that way about the assist/force feedings the vet has given.

I'll have more updates tomorrow and will express my concerns to them at that point as well.

Thank you for everything!
 

ascott

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
16,138
Location (City and/or State)
Apple Valley, California
Initially, The vet did a visual diagnosis. On Monday there were bubbles and her mouth was slimy-both clear mucus but none of the mucus was tested.

But the past two days she's been clear.

I agree that the feeding tube sounds too aggressive and I feel that way about the assist/force feedings the vet has given.

I'll have more updates tomorrow and will express my concerns to them at that point as well.

Thank you for everything!


Also remember that stress is a very hazardous state for a reptile....if this tortoise is highly stressed it can create the bubbles you are describing...also a tortoise will stop eating if highly stressed....so these are a couple of reasons that I asked about if the vet "actually" tested the tort for proper diagnosis or if it was a guess based on visual only....
 

HLogic

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
May 31, 2010
Messages
1,034
Location (City and/or State)
Florida, USA
This is my observation and wonderment, in no particular order.

Rebmassor: I am surprised the vet would prescribe metronidazole for a pulmonary infection. That is generally the domain of enfrofloxacin (Baytril) or ciprofloxacin - both are cipro when oral admin is effected - or Fortaz; a more broad-spectrum antibiotic. Flagyl is good but it is usually used for flagellate bacteria.

Your tort does appear to have an old shell rot issue. Treating it now (again) will only improve the situation. Keep the overall habitat temperature at approx 85°F and try to keep the humidity above 80% with a dry surface layer. RF's are resilient. Once in the proper environment, they tend to flourish.

Feeding tubes are not necessarily as invasive as they sound/look. If the vet has performed this operation more than once, it may be an easier way to admin meds and keep the tort fed & hydrated. Be sure you can handle something like this: http://www.chinehousevets.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Repitle5.jpg

Herpes meds are likely unnecessary. RF's are not one of those commonly noted for herpes simplex infections.

Blood tests & X-rays will only tell you the tort is not well - already known, I think.

An otherwise healthy 4" tort can probably go for 2 months without eating but drinking is another story. Soaking will let it drink even if you don't see it actively doing so.

Is your work office cold? If so, it may be a good idea to take the tort in a small cooler with a warm water bottle or some other method of keeping it warm.

If you can, try to get the tort exposed to real sunshine. It's phenomenal what a little sunshine will do for them.

Last but not least, giving injections is not particularly easy. Get clear instructions for doing so. If your partner is up to the task, give it a try - maybe the first time would be best done at the vet so they can 'assist'.

Feel free to PM me if you'd like or post here & I will try to keep an eye peeled for new posts.
 

Duran

New Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
25
Location (City and/or State)
Atlanta
This is my observation and wonderment, in no particular order.

Rebmassor: I am surprised the vet would prescribe metronidazole for a pulmonary infection. That is generally the domain of enfrofloxacin (Baytril) or ciprofloxacin - both are cipro when oral admin is effected - or Fortaz; a more broad-spectrum antibiotic. Flagyl is good but it is usually used for flagellate bacteria.

Your tort does appear to have an old shell rot issue. Treating it now (again) will only improve the situation. Keep the overall habitat temperature at approx 85°F and try to keep the humidity above 80% with a dry surface layer. RF's are resilient. Once in the proper environment, they tend to flourish.

Feeding tubes are not necessarily as invasive as they sound/look. If the vet has performed this operation more than once, it may be an easier way to admin meds and keep the tort fed & hydrated. Be sure you can handle something like this: http://www.chinehousevets.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Repitle5.jpg

Herpes meds are likely unnecessary. RF's are not one of those commonly noted for herpes simplex infections.

Blood tests & X-rays will only tell you the tort is not well - already known, I think.

An otherwise healthy 4" tort can probably go for 2 months without eating but drinking is another story. Soaking will let it drink even if you don't see it actively doing so.

Is your work office cold? If so, it may be a good idea to take the tort in a small cooler with a warm water bottle or some other method of keeping it warm.

If you can, try to get the tort exposed to real sunshine. It's phenomenal what a little sunshine will do for them.

Last but not least, giving injections is not particularly easy. Get clear instructions for doing so. If your partner is up to the task, give it a try - maybe the first time would be best done at the vet so they can 'assist'.

Feel free to PM me if you'd like or post here & I will try to keep an eye peeled for new posts.


Initially she was just on Fortaz but when she all of the sudden got worse during the middle of her rounds of Fortaz, the vet started her w Amikacin as well.

We went to the vet again yesterday, he showed my partner how to give the injections and even asked him to give one of the two injections as a guided test run.

That being said she has 4 more rounds of the Fortaz and 3 of the Amikacin. He wrote the due dates for each injection on the bags.

I had another vet inspect the shell for infection but he like the 1st vet said it wasn't shell rot but didn't really offer an explanation.

I've been keeping her tempts up religiously! I've also been blending up a sprig of kale, a few turnip green leaves, endive, and one Mazuri pellet which I then strain and add to her warm water soak...She DRINKS it up and since I've started doing it, she's really awaken! I did this bc I ran out of carrot baby food one night.

Her enclosure always has two plates of food on either ends plus a water dish.

AND...finally...today....she ate and ATE her strawberry and Mazuri! I even had to hold the strawberry down she was biting into it so hard! She didn't touch anything else but this is a huge break for us!! I've literally only seen her take a couple full bites of food in the two weeks I've had her.

All the traveling was mos def. Stressing her out, I see it more clearly now.


So, we've decided to finish up the meds and continue to nurture her. Hopefully she'll continue to eat more and more each day.

I'll keep everyone posted!

Thank you!ImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1426300585.095527.jpgImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1426300612.864656.jpgImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1426300640.018146.jpg
 

phebe121

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Messages
1,098
Glad shes taking bite i hope she feels better soon hang in there in no time shell feel like new again
 

Duran

New Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
25
Location (City and/or State)
Atlanta
Also, at night....as silly as it might seem, I play sleep therapy/brain wave music for her. I'm also always very gentle when I hold her and I speak softly to her; No yelling in my house when my baby tortoise is sick...or at all for that matter!

Like I mentioned in a previous post, my dad got her for me, so sweet! My pops has stage four cancer, no cure (don't smoke! It'll catch up to you!) So keeping this tortoise alive and well means a lot to me!

As corny as it might sound, I really believe expressing love, tenderness, and compassion toward any animal are things they can totally feel!

And anyways, I'm super happy she ate today!

Thanks everyone for the well wishes and great advice!
 

Altah

Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2014
Messages
35
Location (City and/or State)
New Mexico
Ok so I'm not sure about the Ceftadizime (fortaz) Gentamicin (amikacin) being used together on her but if they think they can implant a feeding tube do it! Honestly my desert tortoise had one placed and it made life so much easier. Feeding and and keeping her hydrated was no issue and I was able to put her on oral antibiotics which not only helped with the stress but all reduced the risk that occurs every time you inject something. They can generally say for about 6 months and once it's time to remove they can just be unsutured and pulled. If they think they can place one for sure do it. I'd be happy to answer any questions on placement or proper measuring if needed.
 

Duran

New Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
25
Location (City and/or State)
Atlanta
Chi Chi ate three earth worms yesterday and she has started taking bites of her greens. She seems to flourish when she's outside, I take her out every day that it's warm enough.

BUT tonight, I inspected her poop and saw a tiny white worm! When I took her to the vet they said they didn't see anything but also mentioned that didn't mean she didn't have any. Anyways, today I saw a worm in her poop. I'll call tomorrow and ask if I can just bring in a fecal sample for testing.

Can earthworms give them parasites? Should I let her eat earth worms?

Thank you!

ImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1428369673.439086.jpgImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1428369701.237772.jpg
 

N2TORTS

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
8,803
As long as no pesticides are in the soil in which the worms reside in , you have no worries and a good source of protein. ;)
"Great Pic" !
 
Top