Shawn, did the guy have adults he had raised the same way so we could see the long term results?
By the way your RF is cute he has a interesting scute pattern.
By the way your RF is cute he has a interesting scute pattern.
Redfoot Care (in depth)
- Thread starter shawngt2
- Start date
- Status
Redfoot NERD said:
Okay, normally I control my temper enough to at least read the rest of the thread, this time I will not.
I am one who very strongly advocates continued researching. How else do we learn to move on to better, more adequate and healthier care for our tortoises? Do we simply stop trying to learn and improve? I guess from your stance that research is a bad thing, you yourself never have done any? Never plan to do more since you have "the perfect" plan?
I think the "flood" came from blind sheep following of any one given way to do things...and the lack of research.
Yes, I do think this post should be in the debate section. However this is where Nerd made his comment. I think it would be remiss of me to not question such a blatantly ill advised comment as to not research your animal's care. Sorry to those others reading this post and thread.
I have a few very simple and sincere Q?'s for everybody/anybody.
Can anyone show me where I have written that the Turtletary way of raising redfoot tortoises is the only way?
Can anyone show me where I have written that the Turtletary way of feeding redfoot tortoises is the only way?
Can anyone show me where I have written that the Turtletary way is the only way.. and every other way is wrong?
Can anyone show me where I have written that you don't need to research how to care for redfoots anyplace other than Turtletary.com or Redfoots.com?
The only reference to researching I have ever made is.. "The more you research.. the more contradiction you will find and the more confused you will become". That statement is based on the 'weekly' emails I receive and/or posts we get at Redfoots.com.. saying just that. Where is the "updated" info for redfoot tortoises?
I'm not frustrated, irritated, mad, or confused.. just curious for answers. Can anyone help?
Terrt K
Can anyone show me where I have written that the Turtletary way of raising redfoot tortoises is the only way?
Can anyone show me where I have written that the Turtletary way of feeding redfoot tortoises is the only way?
Can anyone show me where I have written that the Turtletary way is the only way.. and every other way is wrong?
Can anyone show me where I have written that you don't need to research how to care for redfoots anyplace other than Turtletary.com or Redfoots.com?
The only reference to researching I have ever made is.. "The more you research.. the more contradiction you will find and the more confused you will become". That statement is based on the 'weekly' emails I receive and/or posts we get at Redfoots.com.. saying just that. Where is the "updated" info for redfoot tortoises?
I'm not frustrated, irritated, mad, or confused.. just curious for answers. Can anyone help?
Terrt K
Sorry but that is how you come across in all of your posts here and from what people have told me all of your posts over on your forums. That your way is THE only way and if people dont listen to you then you treat them badly.
Ok, Terry and I had a nice long discussion about that and maybe he wasn't aware that he was coming across that way, but he does now. As for tortoise care, yes, nobody replicates what they get in their natural habitat. We just need to continue discussing ideas, mistakes, what works (and we all know there is more than one way that works - Terry is nice enough to share and put all that effort into explaining what worked for him). In the end, we just need a continuous improvement approach but that obviously is not a day to day thing, it's year to year.
Shawn
Shawn
shawngt2 said:
Very nicely said! I hope he also understands we are not attacking the work he has done, nor him. His care sheet is indeed one of the most impressive, if not the most impressive one I have had the pleasure of reading on any type of turtle or tortoise.
Like I told him in private, I have a questioning mind and like to see first hand proof and more concrete type evidence. What I had told him, that I would most dearly love to do is a small comparison experiment. Still would not be a complete situation, but would help me at least.
The experiment I would like to do, is to take at least 4 groups of at least two hatchling RF from the same clutch, raise them at the same time in side-by-side environments as perfectly matched as could be set ups. One group gets raise totally by the book Nerd's way. One group gets Nerd's diet, but the standard UV lights situation. One group gets Nerd's lighting practices, but the more the old standard diet. The last group gets diet and lighting the more old standard way.
OK.. it's all in the perception.
So:
It's not what is said.. it's how it's said.
It's not how it's said.. it's how it's meant.
It's not how it's meant.. it's how it's taken.
My first and foremost concern is redfoot tortoises. They don't display egos or emotions. They don't Q? anything or falsely accuse me of everything. They must be thankful because they thrive and [ according to several.. including y'all ] they look great. So I try to keep it as simple as possible without displaying ego, emotion or judgement.
Do you want to hear about the multitude of "horror stories" that we've heard in the past few years? Most based on old out-dated info on the internet.. greedy breeders/pet stores and close minded/uneducated Vets. - true more and more are becoming educated.. which is good for our critters! Put your name out there.. you'll find out!
When 'newbies' contact me they tell me of all the contradicion as a result of all of their research.. and are glad they found Turtletary.com/Redfoots.com - because of how simple and effective the guidelines are.
We ask that everyone reads our "purpose" FIRST.. so they can better utilize redfoots.com and not have any misunderstandings. But it never fails.. they don't.. and they ask Q?'s that have already been answered. So I tell them/insist that they "..research and read and follow every link.." and your Q?'s will be answered. [ some of the links refer to "updated/reputable(?) info ] Unfortunately some have been so brain-washed that they can't or won't accept the "updated" info so they Q? our guidelines. That's their option.. so at that point I tell them to do what they think is right [ and yes ].. "you're on your own".
What is unclear about our format on redfoots.com? Remember it's our story.. so we'll tell it anyway we want. How can you give anyone grief for that?
http://redfoots.com/smf/index.php?topic=30.0
Our "PURPOSE" [ from redfoots.com ]:
Our "PURPOSE"
« on: July 29, 2006, 05:49:04 PM »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The purpose of this informational site is to provide info that we have learned about redfoot tortoises since 1998. And present that info as simple and concise as we possibly can.
I'll start by saying THANK YOU!!! to all that have taken the time to read what we have learned.
When this info helps you.. tell us and others.. please. It's all for the Gregarious G. carbonaria.. aka Redfoot tortoise.
Now for the "guidelines" we purpose to follow.. to keep this simple and concise. Because this is not a chat forum we have to have "guidelines".
PLEASE SEE "UPDATE" BELOW
1) Please research thru all "topics and links" available.. related to Redfoots.com.. before posting a Q?
Many hours and years have been put into creating this info. And we are happy to answer ALL Q?'s that have not been covered in the above! So you can see why it can be disturbing to answer Q? that have already been answered in the above.
2) If/When you have a different opinion/experience.. we want to hear about it so we ALL can learn from it! This can be one of those: We learn from what "to do".. or what "not to do"!!!
When you bring "different" info here please include a link or basis for that info. (please see "Home" page.. http://www.redfoots.com/main.htm)
Therefore we encourage you to be sure.. as you research the WWW. "Redfoot tortoise" world out there.. that the info you have found comes from a source that has at least like experience as stated thru-out this and our related 'sites.
Not someone that has a 2 year old redfoot that is 7 inches long, weighs 14 pounds and looks like a pineapple! You get the idea!
3) Please don't be insulted or surprised if your post is deleted or moved:
a} Moved - because it simply falls under a different topic..
b} Deleted - because we feel it has already been answered under a topic.. so we encourage you to research further. If you still can't find the answer simply PM me.
- OR - Your post does not fall in line with our purpose.. and at that time I will PM you as to why.
Because there are a multitude of scenarios based on speculation.. (and what others have said elsewhere).. we only deal with Q?'s we have dealt with personally. We have found that many situations do not occur when our "guidelines" are followed.
ANYTHING that you like about this or related site or link please post in the "What did you learn" topic. Anything you don't like.. or are concerned about.. PM me please. I will reply ASAP!
Thank you.. havafunwun...
Terry
The time for updates and maintenance is upon us here in 2008. Starting immediately we are in the process of purging all "Care" topics of duplicate questions and answers and "locking" those topics. By doing this we will be creating a FAQ page for each topic.
We realize there still will be a "legitimate" question that will arise from time to time.. and those can be asked in the "What did you learn" topic. We will review each question on a regular basis and post it and the answer in the appropriate topic. If your question is deleted it means that it has been answered previously.. nothing personal.. keep reading and you'll find the answer.
This is in an effort to return to the original format of being an "Informational" site with no chatter.. and eliminating input that does not line up with our proven "formula"! Of course the "Chatroom, Introduce Yourself, Food Plants & Seed and the Material rooms" are still open!!! Have fun!!!
How many times have I asked/insisted/encouraged everyone to research?
What you see is what you get with Turtletary and redfoots.com.. We've tried to do our part.. so we simply ask that you do yours...
Redfoot NERD
BTW.. while you're at it take a look here.. http://redfoots.com/smf/index.php?board=13.0
And keep in mind I did keep a few on there to demonstrate how some just absolutely refuse to 'respect' our efforts and concern.
So:
It's not what is said.. it's how it's said.
It's not how it's said.. it's how it's meant.
It's not how it's meant.. it's how it's taken.
My first and foremost concern is redfoot tortoises. They don't display egos or emotions. They don't Q? anything or falsely accuse me of everything. They must be thankful because they thrive and [ according to several.. including y'all ] they look great. So I try to keep it as simple as possible without displaying ego, emotion or judgement.
Do you want to hear about the multitude of "horror stories" that we've heard in the past few years? Most based on old out-dated info on the internet.. greedy breeders/pet stores and close minded/uneducated Vets. - true more and more are becoming educated.. which is good for our critters! Put your name out there.. you'll find out!
When 'newbies' contact me they tell me of all the contradicion as a result of all of their research.. and are glad they found Turtletary.com/Redfoots.com - because of how simple and effective the guidelines are.
We ask that everyone reads our "purpose" FIRST.. so they can better utilize redfoots.com and not have any misunderstandings. But it never fails.. they don't.. and they ask Q?'s that have already been answered. So I tell them/insist that they "..research and read and follow every link.." and your Q?'s will be answered. [ some of the links refer to "updated/reputable(?) info ] Unfortunately some have been so brain-washed that they can't or won't accept the "updated" info so they Q? our guidelines. That's their option.. so at that point I tell them to do what they think is right [ and yes ].. "you're on your own".
What is unclear about our format on redfoots.com? Remember it's our story.. so we'll tell it anyway we want. How can you give anyone grief for that?
http://redfoots.com/smf/index.php?topic=30.0
Our "PURPOSE" [ from redfoots.com ]:
Our "PURPOSE"
« on: July 29, 2006, 05:49:04 PM »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The purpose of this informational site is to provide info that we have learned about redfoot tortoises since 1998. And present that info as simple and concise as we possibly can.
I'll start by saying THANK YOU!!! to all that have taken the time to read what we have learned.
When this info helps you.. tell us and others.. please. It's all for the Gregarious G. carbonaria.. aka Redfoot tortoise.
Now for the "guidelines" we purpose to follow.. to keep this simple and concise. Because this is not a chat forum we have to have "guidelines".
PLEASE SEE "UPDATE" BELOW
1) Please research thru all "topics and links" available.. related to Redfoots.com.. before posting a Q?
Many hours and years have been put into creating this info. And we are happy to answer ALL Q?'s that have not been covered in the above! So you can see why it can be disturbing to answer Q? that have already been answered in the above.
2) If/When you have a different opinion/experience.. we want to hear about it so we ALL can learn from it! This can be one of those: We learn from what "to do".. or what "not to do"!!!
When you bring "different" info here please include a link or basis for that info. (please see "Home" page.. http://www.redfoots.com/main.htm)
Therefore we encourage you to be sure.. as you research the WWW. "Redfoot tortoise" world out there.. that the info you have found comes from a source that has at least like experience as stated thru-out this and our related 'sites.
Not someone that has a 2 year old redfoot that is 7 inches long, weighs 14 pounds and looks like a pineapple! You get the idea!
3) Please don't be insulted or surprised if your post is deleted or moved:
a} Moved - because it simply falls under a different topic..
b} Deleted - because we feel it has already been answered under a topic.. so we encourage you to research further. If you still can't find the answer simply PM me.
- OR - Your post does not fall in line with our purpose.. and at that time I will PM you as to why.
Because there are a multitude of scenarios based on speculation.. (and what others have said elsewhere).. we only deal with Q?'s we have dealt with personally. We have found that many situations do not occur when our "guidelines" are followed.
ANYTHING that you like about this or related site or link please post in the "What did you learn" topic. Anything you don't like.. or are concerned about.. PM me please. I will reply ASAP!
Thank you.. havafunwun...
Terry
The time for updates and maintenance is upon us here in 2008. Starting immediately we are in the process of purging all "Care" topics of duplicate questions and answers and "locking" those topics. By doing this we will be creating a FAQ page for each topic.
We realize there still will be a "legitimate" question that will arise from time to time.. and those can be asked in the "What did you learn" topic. We will review each question on a regular basis and post it and the answer in the appropriate topic. If your question is deleted it means that it has been answered previously.. nothing personal.. keep reading and you'll find the answer.
This is in an effort to return to the original format of being an "Informational" site with no chatter.. and eliminating input that does not line up with our proven "formula"! Of course the "Chatroom, Introduce Yourself, Food Plants & Seed and the Material rooms" are still open!!! Have fun!!!
How many times have I asked/insisted/encouraged everyone to research?
What you see is what you get with Turtletary and redfoots.com.. We've tried to do our part.. so we simply ask that you do yours...
Redfoot NERD
BTW.. while you're at it take a look here.. http://redfoots.com/smf/index.php?board=13.0
And keep in mind I did keep a few on there to demonstrate how some just absolutely refuse to 'respect' our efforts and concern.
shawngt2 said:
Just a quick FYI: Mushrooms can contain, on average, about 5400 IU of vitamin D per 100 grams of food- a much higher 'dose' than any protein commonly eaten by Red-foots (only some fish are even close), and fungi form a part of the diet of nearly every forest herbivore.
Considering that mushrooms have few calories, a terrible Ca
ratio (.04:1), and not a ton of other nutrients, you gotta wonder if the main reason the fungi are part of the diet is to help with Vit. D for calcium metabolism.
I think you have a very valid observation there. My Rfs, MEPs, and boxes (all forest torts) eat mushrooms with gusto (may not get as much as they like). All research I've done mentions mushrooms as part of wild diet but no percentages or such.Madkins007 said:shawngt2 said:
Just a quick FYI: Mushrooms can contain, on average, about 5400 IU of vitamin D per 100 grams of food- a much higher 'dose' than any protein commonly eaten by Red-foots (only some fish are even close), and fungi form a part of the diet of nearly every forest herbivore.
Considering that mushrooms have few calories, a terrible Ca
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2008
- Messages
- 725
Considering that mushrooms have few calories, a terrible Ca ratio (.04:1), and not a ton of other nutrients, you gotta wonder if the main reason the fungi are part of the diet is to help with Vit. D for calcium metabolism.
[/quote]
Seems like anything living on the forrest floor couldnt eat anything with out mushrooms already on it. I think we would be shocked if we seen some of the nasty , moldy, rotten, fungi laden food our redfoots eat in the wild. Not to mention they probably eat any poop they find also.
ratio (.04:1), and not a ton of other nutrients, you gotta wonder if the main reason the fungi are part of the diet is to help with Vit. D for calcium metabolism.[/quote]
Seems like anything living on the forrest floor couldnt eat anything with out mushrooms already on it. I think we would be shocked if we seen some of the nasty , moldy, rotten, fungi laden food our redfoots eat in the wild. Not to mention they probably eat any poop they find also.
A good friend of mine once relayed a story about being in Columbia in the 1970s collecting animals when he heard what sounded like thunder in the forest. He went looking for the cause of all of this noise and found an adult male redfoot with a dead squirrel monkey in its mouth running from a group of other redfoots that were in hot pursuit to get their own piece of it. Who knew? LOL Best wishes to everyone. Douglas
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2008
- Messages
- 725
Thats is very cool. Dead monkeys are a long way away from that "perfect" super market produce that most love to feed their torts.
It is very hard to find a dead monkey in NY. Sometimes here in the North, it is hard to get that perect super market produce in the winter, so I know many people here who feed their Redfoots and Sulcata's, and even boxies, Mazuri. I saw this article, and tried to post it on Redfoots.com, and it was not allowed, so it was deleted. I thought it was a wonderful read. I hope Ed won't mind if I post it here. The pictures are great. Oops, maybe this is another topic for the debate forum.
http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1440213,1440213
http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1440213,1440213
Just a quick PS I don't feed my Tort mazuri. So far I have not had a problem finding the right greens or fruit in the winter here in SI. We have lots of speciality stores here.
After watching how mine come running and tear into the occasional mouse I toss in, I can easily see that scene with the monkey.
Have any of you actually ever saw yours go after snakes? Not something I have witness, but I recall a friend long ago talking about how his group loved to catch (and eat) the snakes in his yard.
Have any of you actually ever saw yours go after snakes? Not something I have witness, but I recall a friend long ago talking about how his group loved to catch (and eat) the snakes in his yard.
I know of an older woman who keeps Redfoots and boxies in a well planted yard for the summer. She was telling us that her cat catches field mice that go into her basement, and leaves them in the yard for her boxies and Redfoots. Mine will have to be satisfied with dried cat food. I hate feeding pinkies and mice. Yuk!!
I have a turkey farm and we have to cull turkeys that do not grow. I have started tossing freshed killed culled turkeys into the redfoot and box turtle pens and they go nuts fighting over them. Also, when my dogs find and kill animals such as rabbits and such, I toss the remains in the pen and those are also eaten with gusto. Can't say my torts do not get their protein intake. LOL
ARKelly
ARKelly
Can anyone tell me how and WHY this ended up in a debatable topic?
Terry K
Terry K
- Status
