RedFoot Nerd - Question re your Stars

[JourneyTort]

Hi I was wondering if you can post updated plastorn shots of your stars from this thread:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Sexing-STARS-and-GROWTH-rate#axzz1DxF89IzZ

Not to start a debate but for educational purposes to see the difference in a year. The original post is closed which is a pain because you can't view the sequence of photos.

Thanks,

 

[Kristina]

If Terry would like to update the original thread - I have opened it back up.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

JT - these pics were taken today.. not for show, debate or anything other than what they look like from the original post awhile back.

It's obvious how much larger/faster the female ( on the left ) grows - which is and has been consistent with every long-term keeper/breeder that has "hands-on" experience with this species of tortoise!

[ these were taken from some angle because they are in a table well over 4' from the floor - I could barely see the screen of the camera ]

I'm sorting thru older pics to see if there are any next to ruler, etc.

Hope this helps...

Terry K

O.K. I tried again..... ( although these are deceiving.. they do show the consistent growth - must be doing something right )

She is exactly 5" SCL -

He is barely 4 1/4" SCL -

 

[JourneyTort]

Thanks Terry.

It is good to see the progression of young torts and also to help in determining the sex of any future torts.

 

[onarock]

JourneyTort, dont know if Terri's pics are a good indication of male/female. you might want to seek more clear and better info. look at the pics and if you look at the outside of the anal scutes they both form ( ) wich is a good indication of female the tips point inward. in the old thread he does show a good expample of a male, outside anal scutes are more like this ) ( tips pointing outward. And that tail on the smaller supposed male looks small to me. Also if your looking for the faster growing female its apparent that the smaller animal has only grown 1/4 inch since the original thread and the larger animal has grown 3/8 of an inch and thats not that big of deal for their age group. Ive had males and females go back and forth in growth rate in the first 4 years. Also in stars males tend to get more elongated. Look at the above shots, the smaller animal has flared marginals wich makes it appear to be more elongated but its shape is clearly round. In males at this age you would start to see some straightening out around the 5,6,7 marginals (in general as a reference) and that smaller animal is clearly round. I dont have any experience in Indian stars, but I do keep sri lankans and burmese wich sex the same.

JT, I would suggest looking for info from a more knowledgeable and experienced keeper, you might want to try Fifes book for starters. Just my opinion

Thanks Terry.

It is good to see the progression of young torts and also to help in determining the sex of any future torts.

 

[JourneyTort]

JT, I would suggest looking for info from a more knowledgeable and experienced keeper, you might want to try Fifes book for starters. Just my opinion

Thanks Terry.

It is good to see the progression of young torts and also to help in determining the sex of any future torts.

Onarock, I have that book. I didn't say I agree with his conclusions, lol and because of that it is good to see pics yearly to see how they are progressing. The smaller one I was on the fence about it's sex and still kind of am.

I would like to see a pic a year from now.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Thanks for reminding me onarock.

These were presented to me by the director of Herpetology at Knoxville Zoo.. members of Turtle Survival Alliance. They were a 4 year old group [ 4.1 via 'scope' ] hatched in 2000.. he determined these to be one of the males and the lone female - note date in pic -

Here outside in July '05.. female in lower right -

They grew to be these - ( this newer camera did not 'embed' dates ) - taken when the male was 5" and the female was 7" SCL - 11/29/06

She dropped this on 11/21/07 -

This "pair" was presented by Paul V [ not sure how to spell his last name ].. a major player in TSA -

Male [ note date ] -

Female [ note date ] -

Unfortunately I don't have plastron pics back in March '08.

Again they have grown from virtually the same size in '08 to the typical accelerated growth of the female here 2/18/11 -

Words are words... pictures back them.

Believe what you will...

Terry K

 

[Yvonne G]

Paul Vander Schouw?

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Paul Vander Schouw?

Thank you Yvonne.. close enough! Paul has always been a top shelf straight shooter with me.. returns calls promptly - does what he says he's going to do... when he says he's going to do it!

Another trio coming soon.....

Terry K

---

Even tho' I had stated that the "update" pics were taken for just that reason only.. it had to go contradictory - unfortunate.

Apparently because I had proven the ability to maintain and 'keep-them-alive' I was contacted by the then "Steering Committee" manager.. Bill N. and asked if I would take the 'surplus' pair that Paul V. was holding in FL.

The SC Mgr. changed hands no less than a couple years ago.. and I was contacted once again by Knoxville Zoo Herp Director Michael O. asking if I would take another 'surplus' pair.. both of which were "scoped" to determine male/female. Michael then called back and asked if I would take a third that had not been "scoped". He told me that he felt it was another female.. knowing I was male heavy!

As I recall he said they are '07-'08 hatched.. [ I could check the paper work ]. They are still quite small.. but I have seen growth since May '10 when I picked them up -

They were just little guys last summer.

I'll try to get current plastron, etc. pics ASAP.

Hope this helps.

Terry K

 

[onarock]

Sorry... not trying to debate, just trying to point out my observations. I could be wrong and it wouldnt be the first time. But hey, look at the bright side, I gave you another opportunity to name drop, show everyone how well you raise torts and talk about your "peer group".

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Sorry... not trying to debate, just trying to point out my observations. I could be wrong and it wouldnt be the first time. But hey, look at the bright side, I gave you another opportunity to name drop, show everyone how well you raise torts and talk about your "peer group".

You just thrive on being confrontational don't you?

Show us yours onarock...

 

[Jacqui]

Okay, I think this is a good time for me to step in and say, STOP! I would hate to see this get out of hand.

 

[onarock]

Ha! No more than you do Redfoot Nerd. Just tryin to figure out how this thread went from a conversation on sexing stars to a self glorified ego boost. Guess I should not be suprised... since thats where most of your post end up.

Sorry... not trying to debate, just trying to point out my observations. I could be wrong and it wouldnt be the first time. But hey, look at the bright side, I gave you another opportunity to name drop, show everyone how well you raise torts and talk about your "peer group".

You just thrive on being confrontational don't you?

Show us yours onarock...

 

[Jacqui]

Okay, Terry (Nerd) and Paul (onarock) finial warning, next one who replies will be getting into Moderation troubles....

No more personal remarks AT ALL. Is that clear? Not even thinly veiled disguised ones.

 

[John]

man i was just starting too learn something about stars here and it got cut off

---

so what is the outcome,what sex are they?

 

[John]

is there a diference in sexing burmese,indian and sri lankan?

 

[Redfoot NERD]

is there a diference in sexing burmese,indian and sri lankan?

John.. don't know for sure about the Burmese/playnota.. since I've never worked with them.. again different species. From Knoxville - "platynota" - I've seen them and touched them.. that's it.

"elegans" - females are much larger -

I've only worked with the "main-land" G.elegans - not the "Islanders"/Sri lankan's. There's no less than 3 different "locale-specific" G.elegans too.. I think they are smaller 'Northerns'.. again not sure.

I doubt there's much difference.. but don't know. It wouldn't be really smart IMHO to say so.. since I don't know - now wouldn't it?

Basics are basics and there are always exceptions and extremes. The list goes on with Chelonians-turtles/tortoises.

I just post pics of what I have and what I have been told.. along with the "references" as evidence - anymore I seldom say much else.

Probly more than you wanted to know...

Terry