Redfoot Socialization

[Fergui0903]

Hello, im new in the forum and i have a question.

(Im live in Brazil, sorry for bad english)

Im already have 2 redfoot tortoises, one is about 1,5y and the older is 2,5y i guess. They live well together and recently i got 3 new baby RF and i put them to live together. In the first day The new babies sleeps together with the oldest RF.
I want to know if its safe to keep them togheter because none of them is sexually mature anyway?

 

[wellington]

No it isn't. It's also not safe to keep them in pairs.
You think it is,but it's not and you aren't seeing the signs of bullying that the experienced people will see.
Get the babies into their own enclosure and seperate the two bigger ones from each other. Once the babies have grown, then you can try putting them all together unless you have more than one male. Only one male to a group.

 

[mojo_1]

I 2nd what @wellington said.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Yes absolutely second what wellington has said here! tortoise of any species should NEVER be housed in pairs under any circumstances, they’re incredibly territorial, behaviours that look cute to us really aren’t, following one another and sleeping huddled up is all bullying the the tortoise world, you’ll eventually see more extreme signs of aggression. Anyone who tells you pairs are fine, have no idea what they’re talking about.

Small groups are ok when there’s lots of land and the correct male to female ratio. They also need to be roughly the same size, babies and adults shouldn’t mix like this!

Please put the babies into their own, very large enclosure and separate the two adults asap!

When a hatchling, they do best in a closed chamber set up to better control the temperature and humidity, I would never recommend housing a hatchling outside of enclosed chamber.

I’m going to include some information below on examples of the correct kind of equipment to use and levels etc, hopefully it helps!

If using a light emitting heat source it should be an incandescent floodlight(example attached)on a 12 hour timer, using a CHE(ceramic heat emitter) for night heat.

However I think ceramics as a heat source are more suited to red foot’s and far less desiccating on their shells.

Red foot’s don’t necessarily need a ‘basking area’ they aren’t typically a basking species coming from the forest floor(some do though, it depends on the individual) there’s no need for a ‘cooler end’ and ‘warmer end’ with these guys, aim for an overall ambient temperature range of 80-86(82-84 being optimal)temps shouldn’t ever be going below 80 for one as young as yours both night&day.

Personally we rely on CHE’s(ceramic heat emitters) as our heat source 24/7, on thermostats, they’re a non light emitting bulb and I think you’ll find it easier switching to these as your heat source to keep your temps nice and stable. When using multiple hang them equal distance to distribute the heat more evenly.

Large wide dome fittings will help project the heat down, but don’t rely on the clamps that come with them, always hang them securely.

You can then hang some ambient lighting on a 12hour timer, it can being either a led strip or a led bulb in 5000k-65000k colour range. Create lots of shady areas with safe plants and hides, red foots don’t like things too bright.

Any indoor UV needs to be provided as a t5 tube fluorescent light, the compact or all in one bulbs either are too harsh creating uv hot spots that can damage their eyes, or are far too weak. I’ve attached the brands to go for and examples of stands to mount them. The Arcadia comes with the reflector fitting, the reptisun needs it buying separate.

However if you’re able to get them out for a few hours of natural sunlight daily, don’t worry about the uv. Just make sure it’s not too warm and they’re in a secure run with lots of shade.

Your little ones will need around 80%+ humidity 24/7 to thrive, the right substrate and a good closed chamber set up goes a long way in making this work. You’ll constantly struggle with an open top, even in a naturally hot humid climate, it’s hard to mimic the humidity needed indoors outside of a closed chamber.

We personally keep our red foot on orchid bark, we focus on the under layer of the substrate being nice and damp to create the humidity, then the top layer being dry, the trouble with constantly spraying is, one, it can only lasts so long, and two, keeping that top layer constantly damp will leave them more prone to a fungal infection, avoid misters/foggers for this reason too, the humidifiers can also make the air too wet leading to respiratory issues. To stop that top layer getting a little too dry because you don’t want dusty substrate, we mix it now n then, which also helps gives a humidity boost without extra waterto maintain our humidity we simply pour some lukewarm water into the corners of the substrate, not loads! Just enough to dampen the whole under layer. You can keep an eye on your monitors&substrate to do the pours as and when needed, which in a good closed chamber set up, you shouldn’t have to do loads

Substrate wise never add any kind of moss, that’s something some stores think nothing of, but it can actually cause lethal impactions.

Don’t use any top soils or anything mixed with sand. Unless you’ve composted the soil yourself, there’s no knowing if a toxic plant has potentially gone into it.

Safe substrate options are coco coir, damp and packed down by hand as a base, with orchid bark(fir not pine) on top, or forest floor on top, or just the orchid bark/ forest floor on their own.

Size wise I’d generally recommend you make your own base to go as big as you possibly can for the space you have, these tortoises full grown are going to need a very large, secure outdoor space if your climate is good for it, if not, a room sized enclosure is going to be needed as an adults. A good cost effective closed chamber set up would be a greenhouse style enclosure by making your own large base out of a safe material, or even use a garden bed frame! For both these options line with some cheap pond liner, the lining going up the sides too and make sure those sides are high enough. Then simply secure a greenhouse topper on top, if you can’t find an exact fit, place it over like the one with the white base in the photo, I’d place some lining under the cover and base though to avoid condensate getting on your floor.

Some people even hang their lighting and heat from the greenhouse frame!(if it feels sturdy enough) Simply wrap the wire around for the height you need(check with a temperature gun/add thermostats, roughly 18-21 inches for the uv) and secure with cable ties and chains. Or you could make your own stands out of safe timber, again I’ll attach some pics.

For a water dish a large terracotta saucer, sitting flush with the substrate is safest, they have grip in the event the tortoise flips, most pet store options are a hazard

Id definitely recommend a temp gun to make sure your monitors are reading correctly. Have monitors that read both temp and humidity.

Ignore whatever else is in the photos in the enclosures, they’re just to give you an ideaand ignore that some of the fittings in the pics are floodlights, ches will work great, just examples on how to hang your bulbs

Also as this is a closed chamber set up, the materials like the lining and cover will need time to off gas, I’d leave it all running up to a week, or until there is no odour, if there’s no smell, it’s safe for use.

I’ll include a diet list of some stuff we feed ours in my next reply, to hopefully help give you some ideas for variety, as you know, their dietary requirements differ from most tortoise

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

These are some greens to feed(bear in mind the lettuce isn’t the most nutritional but fine to add as part of a varied diet);

Lambs lettuce
Romaine
Red leaf lettuce
Frisèe lettuce
Endive(chicory)
Spring greens
Kale
Rocket
Cress on occasion
The odd Brussel sprout on occasion

There’s also plenty of different weeds you can add! Providing you’re sourcing them from an area that is free of any harmful chemicals like pesticides and fertiliser, so be WARY! There’s lots of lookalikes that can be toxic, it might be best to grow your own from seeds online. We add dandelions and broadleaf plantain, I’ll add a link below you might find useful to look through

The Tortoise Table - Home

The Tortoise Table plant database and resource site for Tortoise owners

www.thetortoisetable.org.uk

Now let’s talk fruit! We remove any pips/seed/stones that are either toxic or a chocking hazard, so for my list, we’d remove the mango stone, plum stone, peach stone, nectarine stone, cherry stones(chocking hazard!), apricot stones, appel&pear seeds(toxic)

Ones we feed more regularly(but rotate cause variety is key):

Mango
Papaya
Pineapple
Raspberries
Melon
Strawberries
Watermelon(not super nutritional but a good hydration boost)
Plum
Peach
Nectarines
Cherries
Apricot
Blueberries
Figs
Guava
Prickly pear

Ones we feel less regularly:

Appel
Banana
Blackberries
Grapes
Pear

Those last ones are more of a treat basis. You can also try cherry tomatoes on occasion but not often.

We also sometimes grate a bit of carrot on our red foots food(not a lot) or some courgette, you can also add bell peppers on occasion, and they’ll also enjoy some mushroom once a week or so!

Hope this helps give you some ideas for variety we try not to give ours too much of just the one type of fruit in any given week, however she gets papaya pretty much daily, it makes up a large majority of their diet in the wild so definitely get your hands on some!

Also they’ll need some protein every 7-10 days, we personally give ours a head sized protein of steamed chicken breast, or a mouse we defrost from the reptile shop.

Calcium power can be added on 3 feeds a week.

Hope all this helps, any further questions, please ask

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Since you're in Brazil, your climate is perfect to keep Redfoot outdoors.
Make each tortoise it's own enclosure.
Eventually you can keep multiple adult females together in a very large area. Or maybe a bunch of adults together as long as there are no less than 3 females for every male.
Keep babies away from the adults.