Replacing calcium supplementation with Cactus

[Sulcata_Sandy]

As I continue to learn more about the nutritional content of the veggies and greens I'm feeding, I'm curious if, since I feed cactus pads at least twice a wee to my 7 tortoises (mostly Sulcata), should I discontinue calcium supplementation? Optuntia is perported to have 85mg Ca+ per cup.

I rarely feed spinach but I am considering feeding it a few times a month since it does have Ca+ and is dense in other nutrients as well.

Thoughts?

 

[Tom]

The problem with cactus pads and spinach (and any other food high in calcium that comes to mind) is that they are also high in oxalates, which bind with calcium and make it unusable for the tortoise.

I would continue supplementation for any young growing animals or egg laying females. Adult males probably don't need any supplementation if the diet is good. The problem is that is might takes months or even years for you to realize there is a problem, and by then its too late.

Just my opinion on the matter.

 

[Sulcata_Sandy]

Hmmmmm. Frustating. I hate using supplements, I prefer my animals get all their nutrients from the variety of foods they eat. Ken just sent me home with a bag of lawn/garden calcium. I'm throwing out the ReptiCalcium that came with another rescue. Nobody likes it and will avoid the leaves it's sprinkled on.

Thanks for the update, Tom. I guess I will cut back on cactus (Oliver is gonna be mad!).

 

[sibi]

Awww. Poor Oliver=/ You can feed him pads as a treat from time to time.

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

I feel the same way but I bought a $12.00 coffee grinder I dry out the
Egg shells out for 24 hours and then put them in the coffee grinder and I
Put them over the food I feed to my torts

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

Hey gramps, aren't you concerned with cross contamination of bird viruses to the torts?

 

[pfara]

Hmmmmm. Frustating. I hate using supplements, I prefer my animals get all their nutrients from the variety of foods they eat. Ken just sent me home with a bag of lawn/garden calcium. I'm throwing out the ReptiCalcium that came with another rescue. Nobody likes it and will avoid the leaves it's sprinkled on.

Thanks for the update, Tom. I guess I will cut back on cactus (Oliver is gonna be mad!).

Do you give them mazuri, occasionally? I make DeanS' meatballs twice a week but mix in the calcium and some TNT. The meatball seems to mask the bitterness of the calcium and all gets scarfed down. Unfortunately, my redfoots are now holding out for meatballs instead of eating their daily variety of greens, lol.. In any case, thought I'd offer a suggestion so you don't have to throw out the calcium supplement.

 

[Tom]

Hmmmmm. Frustating. I hate using supplements, I prefer my animals get all their nutrients from the variety of foods they eat. Ken just sent me home with a bag of lawn/garden calcium. I'm throwing out the ReptiCalcium that came with another rescue. Nobody likes it and will avoid the leaves it's sprinkled on.

Thanks for the update, Tom. I guess I will cut back on cactus (Oliver is gonna be mad!).

No need to cut back on the cactus. I think its fine. It all balances out.

I don't like to use products not made for animal consumption. I worry about chemical contamination in some big warehouse. Products intended for human or animal consumption are held to higher standards than products meant to be spread on a yard. Its a risk I just won't take.

I'd keep the Repticalcium and find a way to sneak it in. I use the ZoMed stuff or RepCal brand and I've never had a problem getting any torts to eat it. All you need is a tiny little pinch mixed in. If I put it in front of a tort and they didn't eat it, they would see the same thing for the next few days until they got hungry enough to eat it. In time they get used to it.

 

[DevilsLettuce]

I don't know what the deal is with my leopards but they love the repti calcium on their greens. They pick out the powdered greens first. They also love their cuttlebone.

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

Ken
No I'm not a lot of store bought stuff
Has more problems but only after they
Been feed to a pet look I be leave it
Was 2 yrs ago pet foods had a
Poison in them because they aren't
Checked by the FDA as people food is
And I understand you concern but I been feeding egg shell to the torts for about 7yrs
But thank you Ken for your concern
And yes in the wild were do leopards
Get their calsum from ??

 

[wellington]

The biggest problem I think with torts not liking the calcium is the humans are giving way too much. Just a small pinch is all that's needed. I learned the hard way when my Leo was little. I would of course make it look like it snowed all over his food, yuck. Just a small pinch, spritz with water and turn the food so it doesn't show so much and it's not in the first bite they will get. My Leo is one of the pickiest animals I have ever had. When I want to give some cal, the above is what I do. Same for the two little ones I'm caring for right now.

---

Oh, I also found that scraping the cuttle bone onto their food goes down easier then the bottled calcium.

 

[Tom]

And yes in the wild were do leopards
Get their calsum from ??

In the wild they have free access to literally thousands of plants and succulents. There are even seasonal differences in the nutrient content of these plants, and studies show that tortoises pick and choose a wide variety of plants to eat depending on the season, the weather, their body condition, upcoming annual events like breeding or hibernation, etc.

I don't know about your enclosures, but there are definitely not thousands of species of plants in my enclosures. I feel like I offer a pretty big variety of stuff too, but I probably only hit a couple dozen different food items over the course of a year. I don't think there is any practical way to simulate what they do in the wild, so my goal is to try meet their dietary needs in the way that makes the most sense to me in my captive environment.

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

Here in western Oregon, we have calcium poor soils from the leaching affect of the rain. The powdered calcium Sandy made reference to is limestone flour. Every 2-3 months I just broadcast this fine dust in the enclosure so the grazing torts get it as they eat. Also, this has the added bonus of going into the soil and being taken up by, and stored in, the plants growing.

---

And it's 100% certified organic. Here in Oregon you can get just about everything you could think of organic.

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

Thankyou Tom but what I was asking and I may of frassed it wrong but I ve
Read that the torts in Africa eat the defection from wild dogs to get extra
Calsaim . And cuttle fish are in the salt
Water and the oil spills and mercury
In the fish of the world
I just feel ( and I'm not saying your wrong that it's my belief ) better with
Egg shells
So please don't hate me for my choose
Of egg shells

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

Oh that Tom is a big hater. Lol!!!

 

[Tom]

Oh I don't hat you at all grandpa. Just participating in the conversation. I'd bet money that a wild tortoise would eat a bird egg if they happened to find one on the ground. Even if it still had a baby bird in it. They are also known to eat carrion, and yes, animal feces too. Still. I don't know how this compares to our farm raised, massed produced chickens and their eggs. Personally, I don't have an issue with your technique. I won't say there is no risk, but I think the risk is minimal, and your resluts seem to support that.

Ken, I don't have the particulars here, but the term "organic" does not mean nearly as much as most people seem to think it does. I know this because my wife is in the dog food business and deals with this new "catch phrase" daily. I'd be less concerned about the stuff after its absorbed into the ground and then assimilated into the plants than I would be with them eating it directly. I'm not saying its a problem. I'm just saying that it could be, and I wouldn't do it that way. I want a product that has met the standards for human or animal consumption. I know if I was a manufacturer of a product like this, I'd be a lot less worried about what all was in it if I knew it was to be scattered on a yard, VS. being fed to someone's kid.

Just my take on the matters. Just makin' conversation. Not saying anyone is right or wrong. Just sharin' my thoughts.

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

Thank you Ken for your thoughts

---

Tom thank you also for your thoughts

 

[Sulcata_Sandy]

Only one of my torts will willingly eat Mazuri, and that's Oliver. And he will eat them dry. He's a piglet.

I like the different ideas people have.