Respiratory Infection in Cherry Head Red Foot Tortoise

DoctorPotterWho

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eHi, everyone!
We have an 8 month old Red Foot named Flash. We got Flash from a reptile show a little over 2 months ago (if not longer). He weighs 60 grams. For the first couple months of having Flash he had a voracious appetite. A little over 2 weeks ago I noticed that Flash wasn't eating as much as he had. I figured maybe it wasn't getting hot enough in his enclosure - 23 x 18 and 12 inches height Zoomed tank with a screen top and doors that open in the front (adding a picture and a link to the picture on my facebook page.
photo.php

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...12285381439.2001939.1054147616&type=3&theater
As you can see from the picture the heat light and uvb light Is set up on the left side of tank. The water is close to that side as well. On the right side of the tank is where I keep the food dish (outside with him at the moment) and his hide hut (outside with him at the moment too). I also keep the temp and humidity gage on the right side (colder side of the tank). When we first got him we were running a 50 watt day light bulb for heat and I can not remember the UVB one (but he gets outside time). The humidity wasn't maintaining because of the top of the enclosure being screen so my husband decided to place some cellophane over the top of the screen. This kept the humidity around 70 to 80%. The temp, on the cool side stayed around 70 degrees, sometimes a little higher. Some days Flash would stay under his light for most of the day, so I figured it wasn't hot enough. We went to a local pet store and purchased a 100 watt day bulb and that got the temp on the cool side to stay around 85 degrees and sometimes higher.

Fast forward to the past week when Flash started blowing bubbles from his nose. I immediately took the cellophane off of the tank thinking the humidity was too high. I also took him into the vet and let her know about his appetite going away, the bubbles and the tank conditions. She agreed it was most likely the cellophane and humidity being too high that caused it. She first placed him on Ampiciilan to be injected once a day. We tried doing this at home and failed so she changed it to Amikacin 0.2ml mixed with 10ml of sterile saline and then nebulized in a 10 gallon chamber constructed from a 10 gallon Tupperware container with a hole drilled in it for the nebulizer tube to be inserted. He stays in the chamber for 30 minutes twice a day for 5 days. I took him to the vet after 3 days of nebulizing because he is still not eating and he now has fluid draining from his nose and mouth. I also let her know that the 30 minute treatment is not using all of the mixed solution and it's leaving about 1/2 of it. She changed the solution to the 0.2ml Amikacin with only 5ml sterile saline for 30 minutes twice a day. She also gave me critical care to mix with water and try to give him a drop of the mixed food about 4 times a day. This has proven to be very difficult because I cannot force his mouth open. I have to try to wait for his mouth to open and then put a drop in, which I've only managed twice in 2 days. She told me to bring him in Wednesday for a G.I. tube if he isn't getting his appetite back. He still is not eating and isn't drinking water now. I am soaking him once a day in warm water for close to 20 minutes.

Today I checked the temperature under the basking light by placing a book on the area and putting the temp and humidity gauge (they are connected) on top of the book. With the 100 watt light it got to 120 degrees F. I immediately swapped it out for the 50 watt light and waited until the gauge went back down then placed it on top of the book. The temp read 110 degrees. I am now concerned that he is getting too hot. Even the vet was wondering if he was burning himself because he has a white mark on the top of his head. Should I be using a different watt or light all together? I have it sitting right on top of his tank, but I can hang it a little higher if needed.

We are in the process of setting an 8 foot by 4 foot outside enclose for him so he won't have to be inside. We are in south west area of Florida.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated as this little guy is a member of our family and I want to get him better.

Thank you!
Candi

20160830_111753.jpg
 
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ZEROPILOT

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Welcome from south east Florida.
100 degrees and above is far too hot for a Redfoot.
75-87 would be ideal. With 82 being the target.
Mine all live outdoors, but I can tell you that they are out very early in the morning and then retreat to their hides until about 6 P.M.....Or until it rains.
They don't care for high heat or bright lights.
You also can NOT have too much humidity. However, dampness and too cool/cold can and will cause issues.
Are you very far from Deerfield Beach?
I have an excellent tortoise vet there.
 

DoctorPotterWho

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Hi, ZEROPILOT, Thank you for replying!

Should 82 degrees be the ideal temp for the whole tank, or under the spot light? That is where I get confused too when I read online about temps for them. I keep the gauge on the cool side of the tank.

What is a good way to keep the humidity raised without having to make the coconut bark damp?

I am on the other coast of Florida, unfortunately =( Do you think putting in the GI tube is a little too soon for the little guy? The vet told me she has never put one in on a tortoise that small before so that was a little scary, but she does seem to know her stuff. She said she wasn't too concerned about his condition at the moment because he hasn't lost any weight and his eyes look great.

Thank you again for your reply! :tort:
 

DoctorPotterWho

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Here are pictures of the lights. This is with the 50 watt day/heat bulb that I switched to. I am not sure the what the UVB bulb is.20160830_115456.jpg 20160830_115502.jpg
 

ZEROPILOT

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Respiratory infections don't generally go away by themselves. No. I would not use a tube.
I've given antibiotic shots to an adult. But I'm inexperienced with babies.
Here's what I do:
I use a few inches deep layer of orchid bark covered by a few inches deep layer of garden soil with some bark mixed into it.
I pour some water into the corners and the bark absorbs the water and slowly releases humidity while leaving the top layer of substrate pretty dry.
Redfoot like to able to escape the heat. 82 throughout the enclosure would be a great temp all of the time. At night, mine often reaches 76 or so. And that's fine for a night time temp.
I'd get over to either Home Depot or Walmart and get a $10 digital humidity meter and thermometer from the garden center. (battery operated)
One of these will make your life much easier. Maybe two. One for each end of your enclosure.
 

ZEROPILOT

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The one on the right, the C.F.L is a type that I personally would never use. Especially mounted in a dome like that. (There has been much heated discussion about them blinding tortoises. Not all, but some. And no one knows how to tell them apart)
I would (And you've asked me) use a centrally located heat lamp. Like the bulb on the left. A tube strip florescent 5.0 and cover most of the screened top, making the enclosure into a closed chamber type. Lower light. Good heat and UVB with high humidity. PERFECT.
Regulating temps and humidity in a closed chamber is much simpler.
 

DoctorPotterWho

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So I should close back up the top of the tank (with cellophane) or something else? I am going to go to Lowes now (closer to me) and get that gauge. I need to find a fluorescent 5.0 strip. Going to stop by the pet store and see what they have. Thank you for writing me back. =)
 

Yvonne G

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If you want to use that CFL bulb, you have to mount it horizontally. But just replacing it with the tube-type fluorescent UVB bulb is better.

Another thing to consider when you get your UVB bulb is to mount it inside the tank, not on top of the screen. Screen filters out most of the beneficial UVB rays.

UVB = B type ultra violet light Your tortoise needs this in order to make vitamin D3 for his calcium to work.
 

DoctorPotterWho

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Thank you, Yvonne. Hopefully after we get the enclosure completed we won't have to worry about him being in doors. I am trying to keep him outside a lot more now so he can get more beneficial light and also the heat to help with the infection.
 

DoctorPotterWho

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Thank you! He's still pretty sick, but doesn't seem as sick - in terms of not as much nasal discharge, but still some. He goes back for more shots on Tuesday. I found a really awesome vet who happened to be listed on this forum.

Yes, a fan of Doctor Who, but an even bigger, and I mean HUGE, Potter fan!!! :D


Hi, Candi,, and a very warm welcome to Tortoise Forum to you and Flash.
Hope he gets better soon.
Doctor Who fan ?
Harry Potter fan ?
Both ?
I am, especially the former. :)
 

Tidgy's Dad

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Thank you! He's still pretty sick, but doesn't seem as sick - in terms of not as much nasal discharge, but still some. He goes back for more shots on Tuesday. I found a really awesome vet who happened to be listed on this forum.

Yes, a fan of Doctor Who, but an even bigger, and I mean HUGE, Potter fan!!! :D
It's good that he seems to be making some progress.
Is he eating okay now ?
It's important to keep his strength up but not stress him too much.
Good luck on Tuesday.
I'm the opposite, love Harry Potter but have been a HUGE Who fan all my life!!! :D
 

DoctorPotterWho

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Thank you. I don't think he's exactly out of the clear. He hasn't eaten for over a week. He is drinking water either. =(

Doctor Who is awsome. Even my 6 year old watches with me and love it!
 

Tidgy's Dad

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Thank you. I don't think he's exactly out of the clear. He hasn't eaten for over a week. He is drinking water either. =(

Doctor Who is awsome. Even my 6 year old watches with me and love it!
Soak him in slightly deeper water so hopefully some is consumed.
Mix some carrot baby food into the water so that he can have a chance of getting some nutrients into him.
 

Pearly

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Hi there Candi! Welcome from Texas if I haven't done that in some other thread. I too keep Redfooted (RF girl and cherryhead ...boy? maybe?:)) have had them since right after they hatched out. Tucker's yolk sack scar was still fresh and raw when they were shipped last year. I feverishly studied all kinds of RF info out there and found that the best sources for me were Tortoise Library and Turtletary site, both authored by TFO members. Between those two sites and many wonderful members of this forum I have managed to get my tiny babies though their first year without any major problems or husbandry related illness. I have also been able to turn things around for hatchling that was likely to fail to thrive had it not been for research, hard work and extreme diligence in his care.
It is my belief that all babies, no matter what species do better when kept warm 80-81F on darker side of enclosure. With humidity around 80%. My babies don't usually bask but some do.
I have fluorescent tube and just reg flood light for daytime, ceramic or black bulb for night heat.
My temps never fall below 80. Last winter the probe inside one of the hides showed 79F during few days of cold spell here, even though the house is heated. I added another lower wattage bulb to keep temps at the reg 80f .
At 79 at night my babies would not eat breakfast and seemed sluggish.
I think fully grown torts will do ok with night temps dropping to high 70's but babies can get very sick very fast. Especially if kept humid. With humidity of 80-90% it is imperative to never let temps drop below 80F.
Again, that is my opinion, based on what has work for me for the past 14 months.
My little ones weigh around 1 lb and 1.5 lbs but I still consider them "babies" as to frequency of feeding, bathing, their enclosure type and conditions.
They'll have to be MUCH bigger for me to start kicking back and letting them do their own thing in central Texas climate zone:)
I have couple of threads here that you may find helpful. You can find them through SEARCH feature 1) "PEARLY's 40 gal tank covered top" and 2) PEARLY's tips on feeding picky eater. They both have lots of pictures. The second thread was made for keepers who struggle with feeding babies.
Stick around and know that things do get much easier:)
 

DoctorPotterWho

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Thank you very much Pearly! I will check out your threads. =)

I think my humidity was too high at first and the temp was dropping to 70's at night while the humidity, for some reason, rises at night. I now have a 60 watt CHE in the tank running 24/7. I have the UVB bulb as well. I know it's good to have some humidity in there, but I am so afraid of it at the moment because of his upper resp. infection. I am adding water to the corners of the tank so that he isn't walking around on wet substrate all day... not that he's moving much anyways. He is very, very ill. He is now keeping his head in his shell and he is starting to smell really bad =(
He is going back to the vet tomorrow. The Dr. said he suspects that this is something other than a resp. infection and thinks it's bacterial. I know it's not looking too good for my little one right now. He is still not eating and hasn't drank anything for close to two weeks now. The new dr said if this is a bacterial infection he doesn't want to inject the meds, but said they are best given orally and since he isn't eating he would do a GI tube =(

The sad thing is we have almost completed his outdoor enclosure... I just hope it isn't too late for him.
 

Tidgy's Dad

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Thank you very much Pearly! I will check out your threads. =)

I think my humidity was too high at first and the temp was dropping to 70's at night while the humidity, for some reason, rises at night. I now have a 60 watt CHE in the tank running 24/7. I have the UVB bulb as well. I know it's good to have some humidity in there, but I am so afraid of it at the moment because of his upper resp. infection. I am adding water to the corners of the tank so that he isn't walking around on wet substrate all day... not that he's moving much anyways. He is very, very ill. He is now keeping his head in his shell and he is starting to smell really bad =(
He is going back to the vet tomorrow. The Dr. said he suspects that this is something other than a resp. infection and thinks it's bacterial. I know it's not looking too good for my little one right now. He is still not eating and hasn't drank anything for close to two weeks now. The new dr said if this is a bacterial infection he doesn't want to inject the meds, but said they are best given orally and since he isn't eating he would do a GI tube =(

The sad thing is we have almost completed his outdoor enclosure... I just hope it isn't too late for him.
Oh dear, it does sound very bad.:(
Wishing you and him all the very best.
 
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