Respiratory Infections/Disease

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Katmb85

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Hello! Can anyone direct me to a good article regarding Respiratory Infections or Disease in Tortoises? I cannot seem to find any information about this such as, how they get it, what causes it, and how to prevent and treat. If I type in anything about a watery eye or nose I am directed to tons of pages where everyone is freaking out left and right and automatically diagnose a watery eye or nose as a respiratory infection or disease. I want to fully understand this topic so I can educate myself. I have 2 juvenile Sulcatas that are kept indoors in a controlled environment and have never had a runny nose or eyes and are very healthy so far, they are almost 2. A few days ago a co worker gave me 2 male sulcatas that are 12 years old that he has had in his back yard/home since they were hatchlings. His wife did want to deal with them anymore and he cared about them too much to sell them to a stranger so he gave them to me knowing that we would give them a good home. I am not an experienced Sulcata owner, I'm pretty new but I do what I can and I really enjoy owning these creatures and I am happy with the way my youngsters and doing... The 2 adults I received on friday have free roam of my large backyard and a insulated dog house to sleep with with a heat lamp that is only turned on in the winter time (this was what the previous owner did and instructed me to do). We live in So. California so right now its 80ish-90 during the day and high fifty - 60's at night. I have only had them two days but I noticed immediately that they appear to whistle lightly when they breathe and they have wet eyes and nose sometimes. The eye and nose is clear and thin like water. When I tried to google this to read about it everything pops up negative like they are deathly ill and automatically says it's a respiratory thing! My co-workers back yard was very shady, kinda cool, and in some parts damp. I have a feeling that they have the wet eyes/nose because they needed to be kept warmer? They eat like COWS and are practically running around the yard and do not act sick at all. Tonight, I am going to turn the heat lamp on and keep the dog house in the 70's because I think it's too cool they way he has been keeping them at night even though it is summer. I notice the watery eyes/nose in the mornings... I spoke to a experienced sulcata owner in my area who has a massive 25 year old sucata, and 2 other's that are around 15 and a little smaller. He told me not to worry about this because in his experience one of his males had a watery nose and even blew bubbles at one point many years ago and he freaked out at first and took it to the vet who said it was respiratory just from looking at him and gave him antibiotics. A year or so later the tortoise again had a watery nose and this time he just kept an eye on him and it went away on it's own and it's been a few years with no other problems. I guess what I want to get from this is a better understanding of respiratory infections in tortoises and I also what to know your experiences with watery eye/nose. I would assume if they had an infection they would act differently and the watery eye/nose would be thicker and probably cloudy, like mucous. Their eyes are clear and do not appear to be swollen either.


And another thing, IF (IF!) a tortoise had a respiratory issue, is there a way to treat it at home?


Your personal experience is appreciated!
 

Tom

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You touch on a whole lot of points and concepts here. Ahhh... where to begin?

First off, its fairly normal to hear SOME wheezing and breathing noises on a big adult. Its a matter of degrees. If its a lot all the time, it might indicate more of a problem than a little bit once in a while.

The water eyes thing is pretty normal too, especially when its hot. Mine do it randomly though, throughout the year. Because the appetite and activity level is good, I think you are okay, and what you are seeing and hearing is probably normal adult sulcata stuff.

Where in SoCal are you? This will have an effect on the advice you get. I'm up in Santa Clarita, in the desert. We have a very different climate than Oxnard or Hermosa Beach which are both in SoCal and less than an hour away from me. You don't have to be specific. Just tell us a city near you.

Here's a post I did that touches on what you are asking:
""Thriving VS. Surviving
So I'm humbly realizing that I might not have been as good of a tortoise keeper as I thought I was. I've always read all the books and tried to follow all the expert advice. I've always tried to keep up on new info and incorporate what I learn into better care for all of my animals. Events of the last few months have just really demonstrated that I wasn't doing all that great of a job in the not too distant past.

I've never lost a hatchling or any adult of any species, except in the rare case where they came to me so far gone, that nothing could save them. Even then, I was able to save most of them. In 1998 the thinking was low protein, high fiber diets for sulcatas, featuring lots of grass and weeds. Relatively low amounts of food and slow growth was also advocated. I did this and the result was seemingly healthy, but small adults, now 13 years later. The question is; how do you define "healthy"? They are alive. They've never been sick. They eat, drink, poop and are very active. They copulate frequently. They bask every day and move to their heated houses every night. Healthy, right?

One measure of just how healthy an animal is, is their ability to produce viable offspring. Sulcatas are known for their virility and how prolific they are. Here's where I feel like I've failed. In Jan. 2009, Delores, my lone adult female, laid 3 infertile eggs. I figured it was her first time and she was still small, around 17", and it would be better next year. In Jan. 2010 she laid 7 eggs and three turned out to be fertile. Better, but still way below average. Many people get 15 or 20 eggs for their first clutch out of 15" little females. Often with high fertility even that first time. They also usually get repeat clutches. Often 2-5 clutches per year. Mine was looking pretty sad in comparison. I joined this forum in Jan. 2010, just before Delores laid her second small clutch. I learned a ton of stuff and really enjoyed talking with people and sharing new info. I asked several forum members for their opinions at that time and even called Richard Fife at one members suggestion. The end result was a few tweaks in my routine. I added Mazuri twice a week to their diet. I increased calcium supplementation for the adults, especially Delores. I began feeding more. Much more. Mr. Cory kindly and generously started including me in his weekly produce runs to the wholesaler. He would buy enough for mine and his and refused to take any money for it. (Thanks again Cory!) I also planted a ton of stuff and found lots of new sources for safe weeds, flowers and mulberry leaves. I began soaking much more often and provided shallow in ground water tubs full time. (Thanks for the pizza dough tubs Cory!) I built them a new and much better tortoise house to keep them much warmer on cold nights and through the winter months. I increased their roaming and grazing time for exercise outside their pens on the whole five acre ranch. Mind you, they always had grass hay available, and still do, and ate lots of it. They got watered and soaked regularly, just not as much as now. They had adequate night heat, but it was just that. Adequate.

Fast forward, after one year of the new routine and WHAM! I've already got TWO clutches of 12 out of Delores. I suspect a third is on the way. We went from 3 to 7 to 24. What a difference a year makes. I don't know if its just one factor or some combo of all of them, but its clearly a big difference and demonstrates the difference between thriving and just surviving.

I started my 3 hatchlings in May with this new routine of lots of humidity, hydration and moisture and just a moderate, normal amount of food. They are growing faster than any other tortoises, I've ever raised in the past. Normally fast growth is frowned upon. But I'm not "powerfeeding" them. I'm not feeding them any more than I've ever fed most of the tortoises I've raised. My three adults were the first and only time I tried the reduced food method. These babies are growing quickly, but still very healthy AND smooth. They are clearly thriving and not just surviving. Same for my leopard babies and my monitor lizards too.

I made mistakes of ignorance in the past. I'm sure I'm making some now and will continue to make more in the future. I share this info in the hopes of inspiring others to never stop trying to learn. I'm hoping by pointing out what I did wrong, others can avoid making the same mistakes and having to learn "the hard way" as I have.""

For your new boys I would definitely leave the heat lamp on at night, as long as its still dark. It won't hurt anything and might help a lot. Here's a post I did on the new box that I built for my adults. It has been working great and they are healthier than ever.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-The-Mother-of-All-Tortoise-Boxes#axzz1USvCpz1W

Here is an underground version that is working better than anything to date:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Daisy-s-New-Enclosure#axzz1USvCpz1W

Once sulcatas get out of the baby stage they are pretty darn tough and hardy. They can survive a lot of less than optimal conditions. It sounds to me like your two new big boys have been merely surviving and hopefully under your care they will begin to thrive. As they get healthier and more vigorous watch out for fighting between the boys. It is not "normal" for two adult males to get along together with out fighting. It happens in group situations sometimes, but seldom with just two of them. If you post some plastron pics we can confirm the sexes for you... Well really we just like pictures anyway, and the "guess the sex" game is always fun... :) Hope this helps.
 

Katmb85

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Thank you! That was very helpful. Good to here a little wetness in the eyes and nose and some whistling is normal! Everyone is usually so quick to assume the tortoise is deathly ill when they hear this. Haha. I will try and post some pictures in the next few days!
 

Katmb85

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5 Year Member
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Apr 29, 2011
Messages
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Katmb85 said:
Thank you! That was very helpful. Good to here a little wetness in the eyes and nose and some whistling is normal! Everyone is usually so quick to assume the tortoise is deathly ill when they hear this. Haha. I will try and post some pictures in the next few days!


I also forgot to mention where I am in SoCal.. I am in Chino!
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,270
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Katmb85 said:
Katmb85 said:
Thank you! That was very helpful. Good to here a little wetness in the eyes and nose and some whistling is normal! Everyone is usually so quick to assume the tortoise is deathly ill when they hear this. Haha. I will try and post some pictures in the next few days!


I also forgot to mention where I am in SoCal.. I am in Chino!

Chino has GOOD tortoise weather!
 
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