Roundworms & New Tort Stress

tee_tee_bee

New Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
Messages
14
Location (City and/or State)
Lakewood, CA
So I've read thru as many of the past forum posts as I can to try to find the answer to my problem but I'm still not completely sure so I figured I'd post for advice. We've only had our Russian tortoise, Pinecone, for about 2 months now. We were told she's about 4 yrs old but no clue if that's accurate. I took PC to the vet last Friday because she was eating less and less, to practically nothing, and we noticed that she was going to sleep earlier everyday. She was basically up from 5:30am to 11:30, maybe 1pm on a good day. She's indoor and her lighting and temps are good based on the care sheets I found here. Basking high 90s, 80s ambient main area, dips down to low 70's in one hide and high 70's in the other. At night her hides range in the high to low 60's at the coolest. She has a separate large UBV bar. Her lights are all on a timer to run from 5:30am to 7pm. She's in a 7 1/2' by 3 1/2' enclosure.

Back to the vet visit. I researched a good reptile vet in my area. Brought in her fecal sample. The vet said she's loaded with roundworms. He gave her a mild sedative (ketamine) and administered the Panacur. While PC was sedated he took a blood sample by trimming a nail. The blood results came back and the vet didn't see any issues. Perfectly healthy he said. He also said that she's a good weight for her size.

Anyway my worry is that she hasn't pooped much. Very tiny bits, like a couple of crumbs once a day while she soaks. I worry she may be impacted from the worms as I've read on here, since the vet said she was loaded w/ them. I'm soaking her twice a day for anywhere from 20 mins to 45 mins, pending on the time I have. She's still not eating much but she's eating some now, only her faves endive and escarole. To get some fiber in her I've tried making escarole tacos w/ mashed mazuri inside and got a few bites in her. I tried a little mineral oil smeared on escarole yesterday. I wasn't sure how much to use though. Am I on the right track with the mineral oil? How much should I use? Again I don't want to use too much.

I'm not sure at what point I make another costly vet visit. I hate to say that but I don't want to take her if this is something I can manage. I love my tort very much but I'm 2 months into this surprise from my husband and have spent about $2k. A lot of that is replacing the bad advice items that were initially purchased, enlarging her home twice, then the $400 vet bill. I feel like I spend a good chunk of every day researching to make sure I do this right and give PC the best home I can. It's weighing on me. But if I need to take her back to the vet I'm 100% okay with that.

I will probably have to go to the vet again in 2 weeks. I asked the vet about a 2nd dose of Panacur because almost everything I read on here people recommended multiple doses. First to kill the live worms, then to kill the newly hatched worms 2 weeks later. My vet said I'd need to bring PC in w/ another fecal sample to see if that was necessary and that some worms are fine. I'd really prefer if they were all gone for now but I know I'm new to this.

To note: I've removed all of the substrate from PC's home - previously about 4" coco coir and repti bark in different areas. Till the worms are gone there's paper on the floor of the enclosure, w/ shredded paper in her hides. I'm changing the paper daily and wiping down the enclosure daily w/ hydrogen peroxide while she soaks. I read a bleach solution won't kill the eggs but hydrogen peroxide will. I really don't want roundworms again.

She seems more active during the day. We have a webcam on PC's home that we can check while at work during the day. She does laps around the perimeter for a couple of hours every day. She's still going to sleep early but not till about 2pm. I wake her up when I get home for a 2nd soak but she goes right back to sleep usually.

Sorry for all of the info and rambling. I know that a lot of questions are usually asked, so I wanted to provide as much up front as possible.
 

KarenSoCal

Well-Known Member
Tortoise Club
5 Year Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
5,750
Location (City and/or State)
Low desert 50 mi SE of Palm Springs CA
Thank you for providing lots of info about PC and her environment. Sometimes getting all the info is an arduous task...we appreciate your efforts.

If she's eating, eventually it will come out :) . To assist the process, try giving her cucumber, watermelon, aloe, and opuntia cactus pads if you can get them. If you have a Mexican market anywhere near by, you can find them there. They are generally labelled nopales. Excellent food for torts!

I would give the water loaded foods a couple days to work, and if they don't, then give a bit more mineral oil. Just pour a bit on the greens she'll eat, roll it up, and feed it to her just like you did before.

I love the "escarole tacos with mashed mazuri"! I used to give my tort lettuce burritos with diced cactus inside, trying to get him to eat the cactus. Finally it worked.

If the lack of poop turns into a serious problem, we can tell you how to give enemas, but for now, let's hope we don't have to go there!

It sounds like you are doing a wonderful job of caring for Pinecone. She may need a 2nd dose of Panacur, but the vet really can't help with the poop. You will do better handling that than he would.

BTW, we all understand the reluctance to go to the vet unless it's a genuine emergency. The cost is astounding, and for many keepers, the keeper knows more about good care than the vet does! I'm glad you seem to have found one that's decent, but the cost is still prohibitive. Go by your gut...ask us for help and opinions, but if you feel it in your gut that something is terribly wrong, trust that feeling and go. But I really believe that we'll be able to resolve this poop problem.
 

tee_tee_bee

New Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
Messages
14
Location (City and/or State)
Lakewood, CA
I used to give my tort lettuce burritos with diced cactus inside, trying to get him to eat the cactus. Finally it worked.

Thanks, Karen! Really really appreciate all of the advice. I never knew how much I could and would want to learn about tortoises just a couple of months. There are overwhelming moments but those are usually just went I feel like I'm doing something wrong.

Also thanks for the tip on the cactus in the lettuce! I hadn't considered wrapping other fresh veg to hide it. I had tried cactus on its own once before and PC gobbled it up but this week she won't touch it. Same with cucumbers. I guess everything may be wrapped in escarole or sandwiched between endive leaves for now.
 

ZEROPILOT

REDFOOT WRANGLER
Moderator
Tortoise Club
5 Year Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
28,939
Location (City and/or State)
South Eastern Florida (U.S.A.)/Rock Hill S.C.
PANACUR does require 2 doses.
It's not unusual for a tortoise to have worms and live with them for a long time. Even forever. Microscopic eggs are released in the poop. Often not ever noticed.
But any other weakness or stress factor can make those worms multiply to a level that can no longer be supported by the animal. Also a diet high in sugars fed to a species not meant to eat sugars will increase the parasitic load. And you'll find actual live worms in the poop and or the tortoise acting sluggish, etc.
The poison (PANACUR) that kills the worms also kill some of the gut flora, making digestion of food difficult. So it's very common for a tortoise to eat less or not at all during and shortly after treatment.
But it will begin eating again slowly.
 

tee_tee_bee

New Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
Messages
14
Location (City and/or State)
Lakewood, CA


Thank you for the insights and information, especially on the Panacur. I've steered clear of all fruits so far since I read they could cause parasite blooms. But I'm sure the original home that she came with, a tiny 30 gallon terrarium stressed my tort out. She was only in there a short time, since I quickly researched and realized the reptile store gave us horrible advice on so many levels.

Do you know if there's anything specific I should try feeding my tort to help build back up the good gut flora?
 

Ink

Well-Known Member
Tortoise Club
5 Year Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jun 10, 2016
Messages
2,455
Location (City and/or State)
Virginia
My rescue had a "too many to count" amount of worms. He had is rounds of medicine (oral). He has been with me, sassy as ever, for almost a year. I gave him mazuri with regular food (his favorite) only one or two kibbles along with his greens. Now he grazes all day and eats well. Good luck. Miss. Dexter Persimmons is an Eastern Hermanns tortoise. I am not an expert but this worked for him.
 

ZEROPILOT

REDFOOT WRANGLER
Moderator
Tortoise Club
5 Year Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
28,939
Location (City and/or State)
South Eastern Florida (U.S.A.)/Rock Hill S.C.
Thank you for the insights and information, especially on the Panacur. I've steered clear of all fruits so far since I read they could cause parasite blooms. But I'm sure the original home that she came with, a tiny 30 gallon terrarium stressed my tort out. She was only in there a short time, since I quickly researched and realized the reptile store gave us horrible advice on so many levels.

Do you know if there's anything specific I should try feeding my tort to help build back up the good gut flora?
My veterinarian actually feeds poop of a healthy tortoise to one that has digestive issues.
Although attempting to do this yourself would probably be ill advised.
 

New Posts

Top