Russian hatchling bit another hatchling. Aggression or no?

[BassMaster4379]

I have three Russian hatchlings all from the same clutch that have been housed together since birth. They are approximately two and half months old and there has never been any signs of aggression, whatsoever.

I happened to be watching them, at which time, one hatchling was roaming the cage and ultimately ended up heading back toward the hide under the heat lamp where the other two hatchlings were basking.

The two basking hatchlings were blocking the entryway to the hide, which it seems is where the third hatchling was trying to go.

The third hatchling then proceeded to "check out" one of the other hatchlings by extending his head and appearing to smell him, almost how a dog would to a person's hand. Then, shockingly, out of nowhere, he bit him!

The hatchling that was bitten didn't shy away from the "biter's" initial approach, which leads me to believe this is the first time something like this has ever happened. I think the bitten hatchling was just as shocked as I was.

Additionally the three tortoises have been seen eating together and they have been soaked together repeatedly without ever witnessing any signs of aggression at all.

Was this a simple case of the biting tortoise asking the other one, rather impolitely, to move so that he could go into the hide, or maybe just a case of curiosity or confusion, or is this a case of aggression that I should be worried about?

It should also be noted that I regularly check and monitor the tortoises for injuries and illness, to which I have found no evidence of either.

I don't want to be hasty and separate them when it's not necessary, but I also don't want to allow aggression to continue unchecked. While I certainly have the "ability" to separate them, my preference is to keep them together for as long as possible, realizing, of course, that adulthood will likely call for separate enclosures.

My understanding is that aggression in small hatchlings is rather uncommon, particularly ones that have been together since birth, but I just want to make sure I'm making the right call by keeping them together.

Any help would be very much appreciated!

 

[Yvonne G]

I've seen that sniff-then-bite thing quite often. It's usually associated with, "Hm-m. . . I wonder if this is something to eat."

But you're right to be on the look out for aggression. Russian tortoises are very aggressive little tortoises, and even though we say groups of three or more are ok, sometimes you just get a bully that doesn't want other tortoises in his territory.

 

[BassMaster4379]

I've seen that sniff-then-bite thing quite often. It's usually associated with, "Hm-m. . . I wonder if this is something to eat."

But you're right to be on the look out for aggression. Russian tortoises are very aggressive little tortoises, and even though we say groups of three or more are ok, sometimes you just get a bully that doesn't want other tortoises in his territory.

I appreciate the response! So, if I understand you correctly, separating them at this stage is maybe a tad bit premature; however, keeping a close eye out for any further signs of biting/fighting is probably warranted, and should things continue then it may be wise to give the little guy his own space.

Would that be accurate?

 

[Yvonne G]

Yes, that's what I was meaning to say!

 

[BassMaster4379]

Yvonne (or anyone)...So it has been several days now, but unfortunately, there are still problems. For some reason, the one hatchling continues to bite the other hatchling.

The reason I'm so confused is that it honestly doesn't appear to be aggression. The biting hatchling isn't chasing the other one around the cage, terrorizing him. Oftentimes, they are even basking right next to each other or walk right past each other without problems; however, it seems to happen at least once or twice a day where the one hatchling bites the other for no apparent reason.

What I don't understand is he never seems to bite the third hatchling in the cage. It's always the same one biting the same one.

It also doesn't appear to be aggressive as the hatchling that is being bitten doesn't have any visible injuries from any of these bites so I don't believe the bites are very hard or being done with the malicious intent of causing harm. Every time, it seems to be that sort of "sniff, then bite" type of thing.

Additionally, the hatchling that is being bitten doesn't run away, avoid, or hide from the hatchling that keeps biting him, which I would think would be happening if the hatchling was really the victim of true aggression.

With all that said, I also don't want to make the mistake of doing nothing and have things escalate to a point where real aggression is taking place that results in injuries.

As much as I really don't want to separate them, do you feel that maybe it's time to take action at this point? If so, should I separate the biting tortoise so that he's by himself or should I leave him with the third hatching, whom he never seems to bother, and separate the hatchling that is being bitten instead?

 

[Tom]

Time to separate them before irreparable damage is done. Russians are typically very scrappy. You are looking for WWIII in there, but you may never see that sort of overt obvious aggression. Most of the time it is subtle things and then this happens:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/bad-day-for-baby.114328/

 

[BassMaster4379]

Time to separate them before irreparable damage is done. Russians are typically very scrappy. You are looking for WWIII in there, but you may never see that sort of overt obvious aggression. Most of the time it is subtle things and then this happens:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/bad-day-for-baby.114328/

Oh, wow! That's actually quite terrifying! I will separate them today. I already have extra UVB bulbs heat lamps, substrate, cage hides & structures, and food/water dishes, which was all meant to be backup supplies for the original enclosure.

I guess I need to get another dome fixture for the heat lamp and a second storage tub and use all that spare stuff to make a second enclosure.

Luckily, I'm working from home today, so I can keep a close eye on them all day. Since the bite earlier this morning, the biting hatchling sniffed out the third hatchling for the first time that I've witnessed. Didn't bite him, but definitely looked like he was going to.

I really think it's all curiosity stuff because when I reached my hand in there to fix something, he extended his head toward my finger when usually they pull back into their shell. It looked as though he was even trying to bite ME; however, I completely agree with your point. Idle curiosity could very quickly turn to outright aggression and serious injury.

I appreciate the help and advice. My little nibbler will have his own enclosure before the day is done! Maybe that was his plan all along...he just wanted his own room, haha!

 

[Tom]

Oh, wow! That's actually quite terrifying! I will separate them today. I already have extra UVB bulbs heat lamps, substrate, cage hides & structures, and food/water dishes, which was all meant to be backup supplies for the original enclosure.

I guess I need to get another dome fixture for the heat lamp and a second storage tub and use all that spare stuff to make a second enclosure.

Luckily, I'm working from home today, so I can keep a close eye on them all day. Since the bite earlier this morning, the biting hatchling sniffed out the third hatchling for the first time that I've witnessed. Didn't bite him, but definitely looked like he was going to.

I really think it's all curiosity stuff because when I reached my hand in there to fix something, he extended his head toward my finger when usually they pull back into their shell. It looked as though he was even trying to bite ME; however, I completely agree with your point. Idle curiosity could very quickly turn to outright aggression and serious injury.

I appreciate the help and advice. My little nibbler will have his own enclosure before the day is done! Maybe that was his plan all along...he just wanted his own room, haha!

That sounds good, but pairs are a bad idea too. You'll need three enclosures. The two you are leaving together are likely to have a problem with each other. Such is the risk when trying to house multiple tortoises together in one enclosure. Sometimes it just doesn't work out.

 

[BassMaster4379]

That sounds good, but pairs are a bad idea too. You'll need three enclosures. The two you are leaving together are likely to have a problem with each other. Such is the risk when trying to house multiple tortoises together in one enclosure. Sometimes it just doesn't work out.

Ok, I can do three enclosures, but I'll get the main aggressor out today. The other two will hopefully be ok for a couple days while I get the supplies for the third. I buy everything on Amazon since it's a lot cheaper than the pet stores.

In any case, I'll keep a close eye on everything until I get them all separated.