Scooter doesn't seem to be growing?

[LiveTilWeLaugh]

Hey all, I'm new to the tortoise forum, but I thought if anyone could help (for free ) it would be on here. Ok, so I have an 8 month old sulcata named Scooter. He is very lively and LOVES to roam around his tortoise table. (he has about 16 sq. ft. of room to roam) He eats plenty, loves taking long soaks in his water dish and bask under his heat lamp. He eats dandelions, romaine, clover, mallow, geranium, and grape leaves. And the occasional small piece of my banana. Yet, he doesn't seem to be growing! He has small growth rings on his shell but not even all of the scutes have separated yet. Is this normal? Am I worrying too soon? I have heard that they generally double in size in the first year. So I guess I am confused as to why he isn't going to. I have ordered the TNT supplement that people on here suggest and that is on its way. Any ideas? Oh, and he also doesn't burrow. I've even started one for him and he doesn't use it. Will that start later?

 

[Yvonne G]

You say the scutes haven't separated yet. If I'm interpreting this correctly, they're stuck together?

Maybe you're not soaking the baby enough and he's being kept too dry?

For a month or so, take a Q-tip, dip it in mineral oil, and paint the seams between the scutes. While you're painting, rub gently, massaging the oil into the seam. Once you have done the whole tortoise, take a soft absorbent cloth and wipe off the oil, polishing the shell until there is no more oil left on it.

 

[LiveTilWeLaugh]

I may be saying it wrong...it is m understanding that when the shell grows the small scutes on the back don't get larger, they separate and new growth forms between them?

 

[LiveTilWeLaugh]

I'm not sure they're actually stuck, persay. His shell looks healthy and doesn't look dry, but he hasn't formed new growth between very many of the scutes.

 

[wellington]

Hello and Welcome

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome.

Before giving a whole bunch of advice, I'd love to see a pic and get a weight in grams. Tinypic.com is the easiest way to post pics here. Just upload any size photo and then copy/paste the IMG code into your forum post here. It's really simple, you don't need and account and it's FREE! If you don't have a scale, they can be found at Target or Walmart. I just ordered one from Sears that I'm pretty happy with.

Knowing a bit more about his history before you got him, and then how you've housed him since you've had him would help a lot too. Diet, your four temps, substrate, outside time, etc...

Generally babies hatch around 40 grams and hit 80 around two months. By one year, most of them are around 1000, if everything has gone well. Occasionally you'll see a super fast grower that exceeds all of this, and frequently you'll see one that was started very dry and grows much slower than this.

 

[Laura]

does he get any sunshine? how about calcium?

 

[LiveTilWeLaugh]

I don't have a scale, but I will try my best to get a picture that tells the whole story when I get home. When I got him, he was kept in a dry environment and had peeling on his neck and legs. Since then (about 3 months) I spray him/ his enclosure with water once a day and he has a water dish he can go into at any time (I also put him in it once a day to make sure he makes it in every day) he has cuttlebone in his enclosure for calcium, and sulcata station told me to give him a tiny bit of centrum multivitamin once a week, but he won't eat any food that it is on. He gets to play outside with me and my dog every day and his enclosure is next to a window so he gets sunlight that way too. I use coco fiber for his substrate and he has sphagnum moss as well (which he tends to eat?) the temp in his table is about 90 during the day and about 75-80 at night. Hopefully this reply posts...

 

[LiveTilWeLaugh]

Thank you for all the fast responses!

emysemys: if my understanding is correct, the scutes separate when new growth forms between them. Scooter has some of that, but not a lot at all. and in some places, he doesn't have any.

Tom: I don't have a scale, but when I get home from work I will try my best to get an accurate picture of what I'm talking about. The place he was before I got him kept him in a dry environment and the skin on his neck and back legs was peeling. He lives in a tortoise table with about 16 sq.ft. of space and has a heat lamp, water dish that he can wade in, burrowing area, and lower level which is dark and humid. He eats dandelions, romaine, clover, mallow, geranium, and grape leaves. And the occasional small piece of my banana. The upper level of his table is generally about 90 degrees during the day and 80 at night. The basking area can be up to 110. The lower level is about 70-75. He gets outside time with myself and my dog for about an hour a day and his table sits next to a window which he gets sunlight from. The substrate is coco fiber and sphagnum moss (which he occasionally eats?) I also spray his table/him once a day with a squirt bottle.

Laura: he has cuttlebone for calcium. Sulcata Station told me to use a tiny amount of Centrum multivitamin on his food once a week, but he won't eat anything with it on it.

 

[LiveTilWeLaugh]

Ok, I am posting pictures of Scooter and his habitat (The upper level anyway, you can't really see anything in the lower level.) Keep in mind he is 8 months (and 9 days) old. Which is why I'm worried that he's so small...

Also, one side of his shell is a bit wrinkly. That is how/why I got him. The breeder was going to put him down. It has evened out a bit, but his shell is so hard now I'm not expecting it to even out any more.

Scooter:

http://tinypic.com/r/e9yp0p/6
http://tinypic.com/r/fwpxfo/6
http://tinypic.com/r/10dtfuv/6

Scooter's Habitat:
http://tinypic.com/r/1px94o/6
http://tinypic.com/r/28rh6rq/

Also, I just weighed him, he is 23g.

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Sorry, correction! He is 27g. Which is still WAY too small.

 

[acrantophis]

He looks like a hatchling. Get him on some mazuri pellets. I soak it for a few minutes before I give it to mine. She has grown exponentially on that stuff. Also maybe some cuttlebone. You can grind it to powder over his food if he doesn't eat it broken up. Try to remove the sharp side with a screwdriver. I didn't see if you had proper lighting for uvb radiation. Or get him outside. Try to avoid foods high in oxalates, as they will prevent proper calcium absorption. At least till he puts on some meat! Good luck!

 

[l0velesly]

Are you sure he's 8 months old? How long have you had him? It looks like he was just hatched! Normally there are growth lines around the scutes and yes, the scutes will generally spread apart.
Does he get any sun or UVA/UVB rays? Try to incorporate lots of sunshine and calcium in his diet.

 

[LiveTilWeLaugh]

he has cuttlebone and i do grind some up and put it on his food. he has a uva/uvb bulb that is on for about 8 hours a day. and i know he's 8 months old because I called the breeder I got him from and they said their records show he hatched on january 20th, 2012. I have had him since June 15th. I have a vet visit set up for next thursday because I'm worried about his lack of growth. also, I heard Mazuri pellets are bad for tortoises? That's why i have him on a home grown diet.

 

[lucky]

I think it's probably that You see Scooter everyday and doesn't realize that it's growing!

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi LiveTilWeLaugh:

When you copy/paste the code for your pictures, you copy/past the code, not the html code. I started to fix it for you, but after doing the first two pictures, I ran out of time. If I remember, I'll continue tomorrow.[hr]
You're right, there doesn't seem to be any new growth in between the scutes. Just be sure you are keeping him warm enough and offering calcium-rich foods. So if he doesn't grow to be a giant, maybe you can go into the Guinness Book as the smallest sulcata of XX age! :shy:

 

[SulcataSquirt]

my sulcata hit 100 grams when he turned one years old, how long have you had this tort? Id suggest keep the soaks up, make sure humidity is high, and keep up the home grown diet, I would also add mazuri in to his diet 3 times a week, you soften the pellets in warm water and make in to a litle pyramid pile so its easy for him to eat. He will start packing on the grams in no time.

 

[mctlong]

Definitely underdeveloped. In this one unique case, I don't think the problem is environmental. It looks like a genetic/chromosomal issue.

I'm very impressed that he's lived this long, so my guess is that you must be taking very good care of him. This one is going to require lots of patience and extra care as he ages. There are already signs of uneven shell growth and these deformities are going to progress and become much more apparent as he ages.

My advice is to keep doing what you're doing - i.e. make sure he's eating and pooping regularly. Make sure he has plenty of calcium and access to sunlight and soak him daily.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[lovelyrosepetal]

I don't know very much about torts. I am a newbie myself, but yours does look like it is not environment. Yours might always be small. Yours might never have very many growth rings and it might get to be huge. Mine are two months old and have less of the white/light scute and more of the dark growth rings around them. Personally, I love the way your sulcata looks. It is very unique and just adorable. I understand your concern and worry for your tort, though. I hope that your tort checks out to be fine. I also love your enclosure. Maybe you can pm the specs. I have to make one for mine and I think yours looks great. If I were you I would definitely give it some mazuri, I have read negative things also, but here there are so many expert keepers who recommend it that I know it is safe for them. It might help your tort grow better and it should come to love it. Good luck and keep us posted. I am anxious to find out what the doctor finds. Welcome to the forum!!

 

[shellysmom]

Awww, poor little Scooter. It looks to me like he suffers from Failure to Thrive. It happens sometimes with wild animal babies, and it's one of the main reasons a mother squirrel, for example, will push a baby out of the nest and not care for it. She knows something's wrong, and that the baby probably won't survive or ever grow properly, so she turns her focus to her healthy babies. The actual cause(s) of FTT can vary, but the results are pretty similar. I hope the vet has some good news and something can be done to help this little guy. Or, I could be completely wrong and he just really wants to be a tiny tortoise.

 

[LiveTilWeLaugh]

haha that's what my parents said when they came to visit! They said maybe he is just a runt since he's smaller than even a hatchling should be. If that's the case, it would have been fun to have a really big tortoise, but I'm ok with it!! But my mom (who used to be a vet) said he looks very healthy. I'm gonna take him into the vet next week just to be sure though.

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lovelyrosepetal: I will try to draw up the specs for the table again, I threw them away after I moved (trying to de-clutter) but it's a great table! my (engineering major) friend helped me design it and it only cost me about $30 to make. It's a two level so it's got about 16 sq ft of space when it really only takes up a 3x3 space in the room! Also, I made it tall enough that I could put things under it. Right now, my rabbit cage and my dog's cage are under it.