Self Regulating Heat Lamps. Is there such thing?

[Bridgebob]

You should use a smaller wattage bulb and use a thermometer to set the height correctly so that the temperature under the heat lamp is not too hot and not too cool.

Yes to that. The height is easy to adjust.

I have it really distant - 2+ feet.

She loves it and she can move away from the heat.

I turn it off usually at night.

It's a food warming lamp.

 

[SanctuaryHills]

1) The Zilla thermostats work fine for me. No humidifier. They shouldn't be run on tortoises at all, but especially not needed in your climate for outdoor tortoises. If you want humidity inside the heated night box, use tubs or buckets of water, and/or damp orchid bark substrate.

For 3 aldabras, I think the 4x4 is a waste of time and effort. They will outgrow it sooooo fast. I'd bite the bullet and do the 4x8 box. You might get two or three years out of one that size. Lucky to get a full year out of the 4x4 for three aldabras, even if they are tiny right now.

2) The self-regulated one is what you want. Your thermostat will control it. Don't worry about that 37 degrees above ambient or the surface temp either. It has built in safeties to keep the surface from ever over heating, and if the air temp at your probe is below your set point, you want it "on" generating heat.

3) A radiant heat panel is mounted above and radiates heat downward onto the carapace. It spreads this heat out over a large area and doesn't ever get too hot in one spot. The Kane mat is a totally different thing. The Kane mat generates heat from below and the animal is meant to be in direct contact with it. They were originally made for farrowing pigs, so they are tough enough to handle the hooves of 200+ pound sows walking on them. This also makes them tough enough for giant tortoises to walk or lay on. I can't get your link to work, but you want a Vivarium Electronics RHP. Since you should really build a bigger box, you won't need either the RHP or the Kane mat. The $40 mini radiant oil heater from Walmart will work better and save you a bunch of money. You can use all three heating elements if you want to, but not necessary. Still need that same thermostat with the mini radiant oil heater.

Thank you Tom, you are the best!

1) I have been using damp orchid substrate as well as keeping tubs of water but still see a dramatic humidity drop when the heat lamps are on. Only way I can correct it is by using a mist sprayer with some warm water, but obviously can't do that while I'm sleeping. What would you say is an acceptable humidity range for nighttime?

2) I'll go ahead with the 4x8 box. Whenever they outgrow it I do have a big old dog house I custom built for my pups which they never really cared for. Obviously I'd have to retrofit it but it's a nice starting point given that it's well insulated.

3) I'll follow your advise regarding the oil heater. Depending on resulting temps I'll consider adding the other options as well. Can the oil heaters be ceiling mounted as well? A bit worried about burning the torts.

 

[Bridgebob]

Thank you Tom, you are the best!

1) I have been using damp orchid substrate as well as keeping tubs of water but still see a dramatic humidity drop when the heat lamps are on. Only way I can correct it is by using a mist sprayer with some warm water, but obviously can't do that while I'm sleeping. What would you say is an acceptable humidity range for nighttime?

2) I'll go ahead with the 4x8 box. Whenever they outgrow it I do have a big old dog house I custom built for my pups which they never really cared for. Obviously I'd have to retrofit it but it's a nice starting point given that it's well insulated.

3) I'll follow your advise regarding the oil heater. Depending on resulting temps I'll consider adding the other options as well. Can the oil heaters be ceiling mounted as well? A bit worried about burning the torts.

I bought a food heating lamp and the heat lamp is 2+ feet away from her pond area. She loves it. She actually acts kind of crazy. She can move away from the heat into her cave area, but I still check her a couple of times a day. These lamps are great.

 

[SanctuaryHills]

I bought a food heating lamp and the heat lamp is 2+ feet away from her pond area. She loves it. She actually acts kind of crazy. She can move away from the heat into her cave area, but I still check her a couple of times a day. These lamps are great.

I like that idea. Specially with the bigger enclosure I have in mind. You mentioned you keep it about 2' high. What wattage are you using. I know it's weather/closure dependent just trying to get a ballpark figure.

Thank you!

 

[dd33]

I agree with Tom's suggestion on the size of the night box. Our Aldabras are ~4 years old and weigh ~80 pounds. They have plenty of space in the 3x8 house now but they will outgrow it very soon.

I think I have a 700 watt radiator in ours but am not certain. I was trying to stay under the 1000 watt rating for the thermostats I use. These are cheap and easy to set. I have at least 10 of them running now but I have had one fail recently.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01I15S6OM/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

I use a computer fan to circulate the air inside the house. I thought it would help to pass a little bit of air over the radiator.

I think it is important to have high humidity inside the night box. Our aldabras choose to spend most of their time in their night box. I would guess 18-20 hours a day. All night plus the hottest part of the day. The heat sources dry the air inside significantly. Example, right now it is 75% humidity outside but 41% in the night box. We wet down the substrate in our night box frequently but haven't done it in a few days because of the cold snap.



This is an inside view of our night box. Its a 360 degree fish eye camera so it looks a little weird. The three tortoises are up against a Kane mat at the top of the image. There is another Kane mat on the wall on the bottom right. The radiator is mounted on a shelf over the doorway. They dont't mind the spider webs and poor cord organization.

 

[Tom]

Thank you Tom, you are the best!

1) I have been using damp orchid substrate as well as keeping tubs of water but still see a dramatic humidity drop when the heat lamps are on. Only way I can correct it is by using a mist sprayer with some warm water, but obviously can't do that while I'm sleeping. What would you say is an acceptable humidity range for nighttime?

2) I'll go ahead with the 4x8 box. Whenever they outgrow it I do have a big old dog house I custom built for my pups which they never really cared for. Obviously I'd have to retrofit it but it's a nice starting point given that it's well insulated.

3) I'll follow your advise regarding the oil heater. Depending on resulting temps I'll consider adding the other options as well. Can the oil heaters be ceiling mounted as well? A bit worried about burning the torts.

I'm happy to share general night box and heating info with you, but dd33 will be able to offer the best advice for you since he keeps your same species in your same climate. He's an experienced tortoise keeper and knows what he is talking about based on first hand experience. I'd take his recommendations for specific temps and humidity over anyone else's.

1) The other heating elements that I have recommended tend to dry out the air a bit less than heat lamps and CHEs. I try to keep my night boxes for humid species over 80% at night.
2) A retro fitted, insulated, custom dog house might work, but keep the ceilings low and the door as small and low as you can. These two things will help with heat and humidity.
3) The heaters can be mounted on shelves up off the floor if the box is tall enough inside, but heating a tall box is inefficient and difficult, so you should keep the ceiling low, which means the radiant oil heater will need to be on the floor. Eventually, your tortoises will outgrow any sort of night box or dog house, and then we are talking about sheds and buildings. I don't have first hand experience with heating something of that size and volume for giant tortoises yet.

 

[SanctuaryHills]

I agree with Tom's suggestion on the size of the night box. Our Aldabras are ~4 years old and weigh ~80 pounds. They have plenty of space in the 3x8 house now but they will outgrow it very soon.

I think I have a 700 watt radiator in ours but am not certain. I was trying to stay under the 1000 watt rating for the thermostats I use. These are cheap and easy to set. I have at least 10 of them running now but I have had one fail recently.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01I15S6OM/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

I use a computer fan to circulate the air inside the house. I thought it would help to pass a little bit of air over the radiator.

I think it is important to have high humidity inside the night box. Our aldabras choose to spend most of their time in their night box. I would guess 18-20 hours a day. All night plus the hottest part of the day. The heat sources dry the air inside significantly. Example, right now it is 75% humidity outside but 41% in the night box. We wet down the substrate in our night box frequently but haven't done it in a few days because of the cold snap.

View attachment 339881

This is an inside view of our night box. Its a 360 degree fish eye camera so it looks a little weird. The three tortoises are up against a Kane mat at the top of the image. There is another Kane mat on the wall on the bottom right. The radiator is mounted on a shelf over the doorway. They dont't mind the spider webs and poor cord organization.

Thank you this is very useful information! The spiderwebs add character (and much needed mosquito control here in FL!)

Your Aldabras are beautiful, and you got a trio just like me! And wow 80 lbs! Approximately how big are they? Seems like they are about a foot long.

So with the radiator and two Kane mats were you able to generate enough heat during the recent cold snap? It got down to 30 where I'm at.

You mentioned they will be outgrowing their hut soon, how big are you planning to go? It looks like you could probably expand the set-up you already have.

 

[SanctuaryHills]

I'm happy to share general night box and heating info with you, but dd33 will be able to offer the best advice for you since he keeps your same species in your same climate. He's an experienced tortoise keeper and knows what he is talking about based on first hand experience. I'd take his recommendations for specific temps and humidity over anyone else's.

1) The other heating elements that I have recommended tend to dry out the air a bit less than heat lamps and CHEs. I try to keep my night boxes for humid species over 80% at night.
2) A retro fitted, insulated, custom dog house might work, but keep the ceilings low and the door as small and low as you can. These two things will help with heat and humidity.
3) The heaters can be mounted on shelves up off the floor if the box is tall enough inside, but heating a tall box is inefficient and difficult, so you should keep the ceiling low, which means the radiant oil heater will need to be on the floor. Eventually, your tortoises will outgrow any sort of night box or dog house, and then we are talking about sheds and buildings. I don't have first hand experience with heating something of that size and volume for giant tortoises yet.

Thank you, all great advise.

Yes, I was thinking I could create some sort of attic on the dog house because it's definitely too tall. Plus I could use the top part for misc. storage and to run all wiring.

The pic attached is from when I first built it so it's not recent. I've already stripped down the dog house for repair down to the metal framing.

I'd have to split it into two levels as mentioned, remove the middle divider, go heavy on the insulation, add a small door on the bottom and large doors on the upper storage level for easy access.

On the lower level (tortoise level) I'll also add a rear door too so that I can do any required maintenance.

Seems like a fun enough project...

Thoughts?

Don't mind the dog tax

 

[dd33]

I was wrong on the weight. Last weigh in was 12/26/21 and the biggest one was 69lbs. I was due to weigh them this weekend but didn't get a chance to. I have never measured them but I should do that soon. They are well over a foot long. The Kane mat on the wall is 36" so I would say the two smaller ones are 18-20" long. They really do grow astonishingly fast.

I am probably 150 miles north of you so we routinely get 5-10 degrees cooler on winter nights. We got down to 29 the other night. The heating setup was able to keep up but we did cover the door for the two cold nights. It is able to maintain 84-86 with the door uncovered with night temperatures into the low 40s. It is risky doing that though. If they were to leave the house on a 40 degree night and not go back in there would be major problems. We prefer not to lock them in their night box if we don't have to. The first few times we did it they threw a fit when they couldn't get out in the morning and refused to go back in the box at all.

I think our next night box will be 6x12. After they outgrow that we are going to build a more permanent structure for them.

 

[Tom]

We prefer not to lock them in their night box if we don't have to. The first few times we did it they threw a fit when they couldn't get out in the morning and refused to go back in the box at all.

That is interesting. I lock up all of my torts of all species every night. We open the doors every morning. There were two days this year that were cold and pouring rain that I didn't let any of them out all day. My adult male Sudan sulcata throws a fit, but none of the other ones did. All of them went back to the normal routine the next day.

I don't know aldabras well. They don't do well here, so even though I've seen a few in other people's collections, the main thing I've learned is to not keep them where it is dry or cold. I appreciate you sharing these details about them. Good stuff to know.

 

[dd33]

Maybe it is conditioning. We haven't conditioned them to tolerate being locked up but they have conditioned us not to do it by refusing to go back into the box when they are let out, or they bust the door down. Maybe ours are just weird. They are still fearful of us and seem quite moody.

We really should lock them up. We check to make sure they are in on their own every night visually and we check them again on the cameras before bed. Its still only a matter of time though before they leave the night box on a cold night and something bad happens. We have learned that they will flee the night box if it floods a little bit or if fire ants attack them. Knowing this we have changed the night box around so it can't flood and we are extremely diligent with fire ant control around their area.

I have been thinking about building some sort of automatic door along with presence detection.

 

[Tom]

Maybe it is conditioning. We haven't conditioned them to tolerate being locked up but they have conditioned us not to do it by refusing to go back into the box when they are let out, or they bust the door down. Maybe ours are just weird. They are still fearful of us and seem quite moody.

We really should lock them up. We check to make sure they are in on their own every night visually and we check them again on the cameras before bed. Its still only a matter of time though before they leave the night box on a cold night and something bad happens. We have learned that they will flee the night box if it floods a little bit or if fire ants attack them. Knowing this we have changed the night box around so it can't flood and we are extremely diligent with fire ant control around their area.

I have been thinking about building some sort of automatic door along with presence detection.

I lost animals in the past by allowing them the choice to come out at night. Learned that lesson.

 

[SanctuaryHills]

Maybe it is conditioning. We haven't conditioned them to tolerate being locked up but they have conditioned us not to do it by refusing to go back into the box when they are let out, or they bust the door down. Maybe ours are just weird. They are still fearful of us and seem quite moody.

We really should lock them up. We check to make sure they are in on their own every night visually and we check them again on the cameras before bed. Its still only a matter of time though before they leave the night box on a cold night and something bad happens. We have learned that they will flee the night box if it floods a little bit or if fire ants attack them. Knowing this we have changed the night box around so it can't flood and we are extremely diligent with fire ant control around their area.

I have been thinking about building some sort of automatic door along with presence detection.

Ha! It's interesting how their personalities can vary so much. I've locked my 3 Aldabras daily on their night-box since the day I got them. They quickly gather in a little hideout within the night box and don't really fuss much. That way it's easier for me to soak them and feed them in the morning without having to go digging for them on their outdoor pen. I suppose I'm sorta conditioning them to trust me since I handle them briefly in the morning and then at night. Lol, I also say their names every time I pick them up. I like to think that after a couple of decades they might just come to learn what they called ?

When I'm done building their bigger nigh box it will be connected to their outdoor pen so there will probably be a few days when I don't actually handle them, but to Tom's point I'll probably still lock the door at night.

 

[Len B]

Here's a couple things that I have incorporated into my sulcata house's that work for me in a cold winter climate but should work for areas that only have cold temperatures for short periods of time. If you are using electric oil heaters set a bowl or pan right on top of the heater. I have tried screwing plastic coffee containers filled withp water to the walls out of reach of the tortoise's but didn't do much help to increase the humidity in the house. Also check out the chicken brood heater at Tractor Supply. It only cost about $40 and has 2 settings 40 and 200 watts. It looks like a flat screen tv and can be hung vertical and horizontal. I us rheostats but it should work with a thermostat if you choose to go that route. As I write this it's 27F outside and all 5 sulcatas house's are 83F plus.

 

[dd33]

Here's a couple things that I have incorporated into my sulcata house's that work for me in a cold winter climate but should work for areas that only have cold temperatures for short periods of time. If you are using electric oil heaters set a bowl or pan right on top of the heater. I have tried screwing plastic coffee containers filled withp water to the walls out of reach of the tortoise's but didn't do much help to increase the humidity in the house. Also check out the chicken brood heater at Tractor Supply. It only cost about $40 and has 2 settings 40 and 200 watts. It looks like a flat screen tv and can be hung vertical and horizontal. I us rheostats but it should work with a thermostat if you choose to go that route. As I write this it's 27F outside and all 5 sulcatas house's are 83F plus.

I think this is the brooder you are talking about. I have been using these as combination hiding place / heat source for some hatchlings.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/producers-pride-brooder-and-coop-heater?cm_vc=-10005

 

[Len B]

I think this is the brooder you are talking about. I have been using these as combination hiding place / heat source for some hatchlings.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/producers-pride-brooder-and-coop-heater?cm_vc=-10005

Yes that's it, I set the temperature I want using a lamp dimmer and checking the wattage with a kill a watt from harbor freight.

 

[SanctuaryHills]

Yes that's it, I set the temperature I want using a lamp dimmer and checking the wattage with a kill a watt from harbor freight.

Thank you that looks like a great system. What is the size of the enclosure you are heating?

 

[Bridgebob]

I like that idea. Specially with the bigger enclosure I have in mind. You mentioned you keep it about 2' high. What wattage are you using. I know it's weather/closure dependent just trying to get a ballpark figure.

Thank you!

250 watts. The light can clamp on boards and you can easily adjust it.

I don't know if it will take less wattage, but she loves it.

I think the light only needs to be on maybe 2-4 hours a day. She will hide if it's left on all night.

 

[Bridgebob]

250 watts. The light can clamp on boards and you can easily adjust it.

I don't know if it will take less wattage, but she loves it.

I think the light only needs to be on maybe 2-4 hours a day. She will hide if it's left on all night.

It's for Indoor use. I love it though and you can probably modify the outdoor settings.

 

[Len B]

Thank you that looks like a great system. What is the size of the enclosure you are heating?

I have 5 houses, the largest is 8x8 ft. It's heated by a 3x4 ft Stanfield heat mat, electric oil filled radiator and a CHE. Haven't needed to run all 3 at the same time in a few years.