Sex & sub-species

[MasterOogway]

Ok I am wanting to make sure Penelope is a female so I was hoping the experts can confirm. I am also reading a book titled Mediterranean Tortoises by Lance Jepson . So I was also wondering what sub species of Greek tortoise I have as it seems there are two sub species that can be golden.. Testudo Graeca Graeca or Testudo Graeca Terrestris. Here are some pictures .

 

[Spn785]

I'm guessing female and Testudo graeca terrestris, but I'm probably wrong.

 

[Rogue]

That's my guess as well, by I too could be wrong.

Here's my female, which I've been told was T. graeca terrestris.

 

[lq558]

RE: Sex & sub-species

Ok I am wanting to make sure Penelope is a female so I was hoping the experts can confirm. I am also reading a book titled Mediterranean Tortoises by Lance Jepson . So I was also wondering what sub species of Greek tortoise I have as it seems there are two sub species that can be golden.. Testudo Graeca Graeca or Testudo Graeca Terrestris. Here are some pictures .

It is a smaller size subspecies than Tg.terrestris, the Tg.floweri, which has a black color spot in the middle of its tail.

You bought her at petsmart? There are so many golden ones recently.

 

[Rogue]

Where do you look for the black spot? I don't see one in the pics posted by MasterOogway.

 

[MasterOogway]

RE: Sex & sub-species

It is a smaller size subspecies than Tg.terrestris, the Tg.floweri, which has a black color spot in the middle of its tail.

You bought her at petsmart? There are so many golden ones recently.

No I purchased her from a reptile store she is captive raised from a local breeder. I have seen the goldens at petsmart she seems to be a different shape higher domed and smaller. Even her yellow seems to be a different color gold.

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Is this the black spot? There is a handsome male Greek at Petsmart which is why I am sending my hubby to get dog food or else he would be mine ;p

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That's my guess as well, by I too could be wrong.

Here's my female, which I've been told was T. graeca terrestris.

She is beautiful !

 

[Rogue]

Thank you!

Well I think we can say Penelope is a girl, but I'm at a loss about the terristris vs floweri subspecies differentiation. I've seen tortoises at Petsmart that look just like Penelope (same coloration, high dome), and I've heard they source their tortoises from Jordan. So my guess is she's not a T. graeca, but most likelt T. territris/floweri.

 

[MasterOogway]

Thank you!

Well I think we can say Penelope is a girl, but I'm at a loss about the terristris vs floweri subspecies differentiation. I've seen tortoises at Petsmart that look just like Penelope (same coloration, high dome), and I've heard they source their tortoises from Jordan. So my guess is she's not a T. graeca, but most likelt T. territris/floweri.

I did not purchase her from Petsmart but the golden tortoises I have seen here locally at Petsmart look like what the book is saying "golden Greek" Testudo Graeca Graeca. The book also calls it a golden Greek and from Jordan.The book states the Testudo Graeca Terrestris is from Israel, Syria, & Lebanon that has the high dome and seems to look like Penelope. It is distinguishable from the T.G.Graeca by the high dome carpace & yellow markings on its head. I am reading now to see what sub-species list the black spot on the tail. This is interesting and I hope a pro comes to the rescue My husband is saying who cares its a Greek tortoise but I like to learn whatever she is!

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Ok I am wanting to make sure Penelope is a female so I was hoping the experts can confirm. I am also reading a book titled Mediterranean Tortoises by Lance Jepson . So I was also wondering what sub species of Greek tortoise I have as it seems there are two sub species that can be golden.. Testudo Graeca Graeca or Testudo Graeca Terrestris. Here are some pictures .

It is a smaller size subspecies than Tg.terrestris, the Tg.floweri, which has a black color spot in the middle of its tail.

You bought her at petsmart? There are so many golden ones recently.

T.G. Floweri - this is interesting as you were right she has a black spot on her tail.

---

Thank you!

Well I think we can say Penelope is a girl, but I'm at a loss about the terristris vs floweri subspecies differentiation. I've seen tortoises at Petsmart that look just like Penelope (same coloration, high dome), and I've heard they source their tortoises from Jordan. So my guess is she's not a T. graeca, but most likelt T. territris/floweri.

I did not purchase her from Petsmart but the golden tortoises I have seen here locally at Petsmart look like what the book is saying "golden Greek" Testudo Graeca Graeca colour morph appears in dryer hotter areas. The book states the Testudo Graeca Terrestris is from Israel, Syria, & Lebanon that has the high dome and seems to look like Penelope. It is distinguishable from the T.G.Graeca by the high dome carpace & yellow markings on its head. I am reading now to see what sub-species list the black spot on the tail. This is interesting and I hope a pro comes to the rescue My husband is saying who cares its a Greek tortoise but I like to learn whatever she is!

---

Ok I am wanting to make sure Penelope is a female so I was hoping the experts can confirm. I am also reading a book titled Mediterranean Tortoises by Lance Jepson . So I was also wondering what sub species of Greek tortoise I have as it seems there are two sub species that can be golden.. Testudo Graeca Graeca or Testudo Graeca Terrestris. Here are some pictures .

It is a smaller size subspecies than Tg.terrestris, the Tg.floweri, which has a black color spot in the middle of its tail.

You bought her at petsmart? There are so many golden ones recently.

T.G. Floweri - this is interesting as you were right she has a black spot on her tail.

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[MasterOogway]

correction sorry it states the Graeca Graeca is from North Africa and the Ibera is Jordan.

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correction sorry it states the Graeca Graeca is from North Africa and the Ibera is Jordan.

This website http://reptile-database.reptarium.cz/species?genus=Testudo&species=graeca states:
floweri: Negev (S arid Israel); type locality: “Negev”.

terrestris: Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, SE Turkey.

 

[lq558]

RE: Sex & sub-species

Where do you look for the black spot? I don't see one in the pics posted by MasterOogway.

I didn't see it also, but I think it is tg.floweri, so usually it should have a black color spot in the middle of its tail. And this subspecies usually smaller size than Tg.terrestris.

What subspecies it is is often not important. But you need to know whether it hibernates in its hometown, and if it is from North Africa, this is very important! North Africa ones like tg.g are usually difficult to care, they need low humid environment and don't hibernate at all. If you force them to hibernate they may die very easily.

My English is good or not?

 

[MasterOogway]

RE: Sex & sub-species

I didn't see it also, but I think it is tg.floweri, so usually it should have a black color spot in the middle of its tail. And this subspecies usually smaller size than Tg.terrestris.

What subspecies it is is often not important. But you need to know whether it hibernates in its hometown, and if it is from North Africa, this is very important! North Africa ones like tg.g are usually difficult to care, they need low humid environment and don't hibernate at all. If you force them to hibernate they may die very easily.

My English is good or not?

Thanks . She does have a black spot on her tail so she must be the t.g. Floweri . Your English is fine. Thanks again your were very helpful. I am going to try an research more about this sub- species. There does not seem to much info.

 

[MasterOogway]

RE: Sex & sub-species

That's my guess as well, by I too could be wrong.

Here's my female, which I've been told was T. graeca terrestris.

Your female looks like mine I am curious if she had a black spot on her tail. Where you able to find one?

 

[Rogue]

My female does not have a black spot.

They both do seem to have similar faces and scale patterns on their heads. How large is your female? Mine is 5.5"

 

[MasterOogway]

RE: Sex & sub-species

My female does not have a black spot.

They both do seem to have similar faces and scale patterns on their heads. How large is your female? Mine is 5.5"

Penelope is 5.5 inches too. I am still researching as it is interesting to me. So far I have found there are different Sub - species that can be golden and so not all golden Greeks are the same.Mine seems to be the T. G. Floweri and yours the T.g.terrestris which are close but there are some slight differences like the spot on the tail. Interesting when I searched the forum for Floweri there have not been many posts on the subject . It does state in the book the t.g. Terrestris rarely have any markings on the sides of the scutes as seen on the other sub -species.

 

[Rogue]

To further confuse the issue, I've read that there are Ibera populations from southern Turkey that also exhibit a more golden color and are smaller in size. Good luck on your research! I don't think there is a definitive answer on the how to differentiate the terrestris/floweri subspecies, or whether they should really be their own subspecies at all. Since mine is from PetsMart, I'm content to say I have a healthy middle-eastern Testudo mutt.

Can you contact the breeder that your pet store sourced from? Maybe they have more info.

 

[MasterOogway]

To further confuse the issue, I've read that there are Ibera populations from southern Turkey that also exhibit a more golden color and are smaller in size. Good luck on your research! I don't think there is a definitive answer on the how to differentiate the terrestris/floweri subspecies, or whether they should really be their own subspecies at all. Since mine is from PetsMart, I'm content to say I have a healthy middle-eastern Testudo mutt.

Can you contact the breeder that your pet store sourced from? Maybe they have more info.

I know I have been reading the same which I find interesting. Not only am I finding it interesting but taking note the care as I research of the sub-species can differ which is my main concern for my girl.I just want to get that right.

 

[nickpanzee]

Sorry to go OT,
Rogue, to me, your tortoise looks like a male.

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I have no idea how those random tortoise pictures got into my post. I've never seen them before. I posted that from the app. :O (I hope I just deleted them)

 

[Rogue]

*moved query to new topic*

 

[MasterOogway]

RE: Sex & sub-species

Ok I am wanting to make sure Penelope is a female so I was hoping the experts can confirm. I am also reading a book titled Mediterranean Tortoises by Lance Jepson . So I was also wondering what sub species of Greek tortoise I have as it seems there are two sub species that can be golden.. Testudo Graeca Graeca or Testudo Graeca Terrestris. Here are some pictures .

It is a smaller size subspecies than Tg.terrestris, the Tg.floweri, which has a black color spot in the middle of its tail.

.

T.G floweri spot on tail
http://startortoises.net/golden-greek-tortoise.html