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sex temp female...male?

Discussion in 'Marginated tortoises' started by ohio, Jan 12, 2017.

  1. ohio

    ohio Active Member

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    Well this spring i bought three new Marginated torts (from UR) they were temp sex for female but today during their soak Chloe showed me something that made me rename it to Joey. Or should i say him...... my only concern is that all the tails look alike. Could my luck be that bad to end up with three males? They're doing great and have grown about 2 cm each and put on plenty of weight since they've been in my care. Now the dilemma of what the future holds.
  2. dmmj

    dmmj The member formerly known as captain awesome Moderator 5 Year Member

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    Temp sexed just has a higher percentage of male or female depending on which way it's incubated but the odds are probably still the same. If it was me I would say I probably have 3 males knowing my luck
  3. Markw84

    Markw84 Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    Temp sex studies have accurately been done on very few species. For those it where it has been done with accurate equipment, it does appear for at least some species you can get it down to a virtual 100% male or 100% female outcome. The difference, however, is just a few degrees separation. 89f may produce 95%+ female, while 86.5f is a 50/50 mix (pivot point).

    The TSD info we work with for the vast majority of species are based on, at best, anecdotal experiences from those willing to share, and many breeders seem to rather not want to share the information. How consistent was the temperature throughout the temperature sensitive period? And then we are mostly dealing with thermometers that by manufacture's specs are accurate within 2 degrees f. And incubators that may hold a temperature that will swing up or down a few degrees a day. Add to that, as the incubation period is so long, the average temperature in the incubation room will probably change throughout the incubation period, which affects the temperature the incubator is able to hold. And the timing of the temperature and duration at that temperature has significant impact on the results. Temperature within the incubator can vary as well, so was there an accurate probe, calibrated true, next to the eggs being sold as TSF?

    SO... CAVEAT EMPTOR!!
  4. Tom

    Tom The Dog Trainer 5 Year Member

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    To my knowledge only sulcatas have had actual TSD studies done. Thanks to Mr. Richard Fife.

    I think a lot of radiata have been endoscopically sexed, but I don't know that accurate thermometers and incubators were used to incubate them.

    I bought 10 stars that were all incubated for female and I have 5.5 now that they are nearing adulthood.
  5. Markw84

    Markw84 Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    The Behler center did publish some results of a study they did on platynota. They used surgical sexing on the hatchlings. Eric Goode did qualify the results questioning the actual accuracy of their thermometers. Did produce some useable results though in my opinion
  6. ohio

    ohio Active Member

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    Thank you for all your input, i assumed that i would end up with a male that's why i got three, and dmmj you're right that's probably my luck three males. My only worry is room to house three adult males. I've learned that too many males are a bad thing. They're doing great and had them outside today JANUARY 21st. almost 60 deg f. In January.......who would believe in climate change with weather like this. lol. The nice thing about this weather is i can forage food for them in the yard. Thanks again. i love this forum, such good responses.
  7. ohio

    ohio Active Member

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    Just an update, 2 for sure males waiting on the third, it's the smallest. Still thinking male. But all tails look same/different? I'll get pics this weekend.
    lisa127 likes this.
  8. lisa127

    lisa127 Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    Let me know if you decide to rehome a male. It's a species I've been interested in and I'm in ne ohio.
  9. teresaf

    teresaf Well-Known Member

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    It surprises me that no one has thought to aim for all female...Females together get along. Females get along with males. Males DON'T get along with males. You only need one male to a bunch of females...Why try to get 50/50? Why not raise the incubation temps and aim for 100% female? Ugh, just seems that we have a bunch of unwanted males out there.

    OK. I just read that back. I'm NOT male bashing.
    Oh! I have seen a study on incubation by temp for MEPs. Very in depth.
    Tidgy's Dad likes this.
  10. ohio

    ohio Active Member

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    Diffidently going to have to let one go lisa127. It'll be hard but we'll have to private chat sometime. Been kinda busy with snow and all.
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  11. lisa127

    lisa127 Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    Sounds good. Just let me know.
  12. ohio

    ohio Active Member

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    Here's The pic update.
    The first to Show me it was a male.
    20170210_172350.jpg

    This was the second to show his manhood.
    20170210_172324.jpg

    This is my last hope for a female.
    20170210_172416.jpg
    Still looks like others but smaller. Back of shell not as flared either.
    Another male?
  13. ohio

    ohio Active Member

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    Just an update. I've put 2 down for hibernation and kept one awake. 1 still assumed to be female, small tail and less flare to her scutes. (18cm and 856g) while 1 male has larger flares and showed off his stuff (18cm and 892g) both hibernating. Now my third hasn't grown much at all, he did show off his stuff as well but he has only grown slightly since i got him. he is only 15 cm and only weights 434 grams. Feed him all the time but he only ever nibbles just a little bit at any food i ever offer him.
  14. ohio

    ohio Active Member

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    Another update. 2 still in hibernation, just a few more weeks before I wake them. Kalipso the boy that I kept awake this winter is starting to bulk up a little although he's still about 200 grams lighter then the others. Building new indoor enclosures with more room and expanding outdoor enclosures for more room. Definitely a boy because he seems to like to show off his stuff so I've decided to invest in a female this spring. Been saving my Christmas money and beer money lol. Thinking of going through ATC because he seems to be a reputable breeder and I'd need to have a guarantee female. I'll keep you posted. Thanks
  15. Yvonne G

    Yvonne G Old Timer TFO Admin 10 Year Member! Platinum Supporter

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    Geez! What luck.
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