shell growth

[lawlessangel76]

hi everyone,my male sulcata is 9 and his shell doesn't cover his tail,on google it says that should happen between 3-4 years old,yes he's pyramided,but my brother took had him for the first 2 years and didn't do a very good job,now I'm starting to worry,is something wrong with him,he hasn't been weighed by a vet but my husband says he's about 30-35 lbs,that seems very light for a 9 year old,he has a huge yard of grass & weeds and he gets hibiscus,he's not a big fan of water,so I have to squirt him with the hose everyday,of course he walks away and when I put him in his pool,he walks out within 5 minutes,is that why his shell hasn't grown over his tail,plz don't beat up on me,I already get that from sulcata groups on Facebook and I'm already trying to fix my brother's mistakes,here are some pics

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

We don't beat people up here, that is not the way to go to improve a life of an tortoise. I think it is possible that in this case, his care earlier in his life has caused stunted growth.

I am going to tag some sulcata people, @wellington @Tom @Maggie3fan

 

[lawlessangel76]

We don't beat people up here, that is not the way to go to improve a life of an tortoise. I think it is possible that in this case, his care earlier in his life has caused stunted growth.

I am going to tag some sulcata people, @wellington @Tom @Maggie3fan

thank you for your kind words

 

[wellington]

I really don't have a definite answer. My best guess would be the care he had by your brother. I don't think it's a big deal, I can't think of any reason it would be a problem. It looks like the very last top scutes, at the back is very small. That may have a connection to the tail scute not being longer.
He does seem light for his age, but not in that bad of shape for his past care, compared to many others we have seen.
Don't listen to those other groups,they don't have a clue about the proper way to raise a tortoise. Most of those groups promote the old, outdated, wrong way.
See what the others say and @Yvonne G or @Markw84
Welcome to the forum.

 

[Markw84]

Welcome to the forum!

First of all, it looks to me that your tortoise is female. Hard to be sure from the pictures you did post, but certainly looks female. A picture from the front - showing gulars, and bottom, showing anal scutes, and of hte tail would confirm. But if indeed your tortoise is around 30 lbs and 9 years old, it must be female from what I do see. Anals, tail and supracaudal all say female from the pictures here. That will account for some of the smaller size question.

The gap covering the rear is larger than normal. Being female is some of that. Most of that is from the way it was raised. There appears to be some metabolic bone disease it had dealt with. The sunken look around the 4th vertebral and 4th costals is from pressure of the rear leg/hip attachements pulling down on the shell structure that is too weak to maintain proper shape if the bone is too weak. This also then often leads to the shrunken look of the 4th vertebral and surrounding area not growing and expanding as fast as other areas.

Your tortoise does look like it is walking normally. So although a bit deformed from past care, it looks like it probably is doing well now. With the proper care you are now giving it should be fine and live a normal life from here on. Just be sure to continue to now provide ample access to sunshine and good diet with ample calcium and mineral balance. Opuntia pads, mulberry leaves, cuttlebone/calcium powder, Mazuri diet a few times a week, etc, etc.

 

[Tom]

hi everyone,my male sulcata is 9 and his shell doesn't cover his tail,on google it says that should happen between 3-4 years old,yes he's pyramided,but my brother took had him for the first 2 years and didn't do a very good job,now I'm starting to worry,is something wrong with him,he hasn't been weighed by a vet but my husband says he's about 30-35 lbs,that seems very light for a 9 year old,he has a huge yard of grass & weeds and he gets hibiscus,he's not a big fan of water,so I have to squirt him with the hoView attachment 377271View attachment 377272se everyday,of course he walks away and when I put him in his pool,he walks out within 5 minutes,is that why his shell hasn't grown over his tail,plz don't beat up on me,I already get that from sulcata groups on Facebook and I'm already trying to fix my brother's mistakes,here are some pics

FB is a terrible place to go for tortoise info. I've heard nothing but bad about it, so I'm glad you found your way here.

I agree with Mark about the MBD, but not about the sex. The tail off to the side in the one pic sure looks like a big male tail to me.

MDB comes from poor diet, lack of UV, lack of calcium or lack of D3. If the tortoise was housed indoors, fed lettuce, and not given enough UV or calcium, it would cause something like this. Now that he is outdoors getting sunshine and eating weeds and grasses, the damage has been stopped. The tortoise is probably healthy and fine now, and should live a long healthy life in spite of the cosmetic damage.

 

[lawlessangel76]

here are some better pics of his plastron & tail,anal scutes,gular,the long tail held to the side and the "V" shaped opening screams male,but flat plastron,gular scream girl..I'm so confused

 

[lawlessangel76]

FB is a terrible place to go for tortoise info. I've heard nothing but bad about it, so I'm glad you found your way here.

I agree with Mark about the MBD, but not about the sex. The tail off to the side in the one pic sure looks like a big male tail to me.

MDB comes from poor diet, lack of UV, lack of calcium or lack of D3. If the tortoise was housed indoors, fed lettuce, and not given enough UV or calcium, it would cause something like this. Now that he is outdoors getting sunshine and eating weeds and grasses, the damage has been stopped. The tortoise is probably healthy and fine now, and should live a long healthy life in spite of the cosmetic damage.

yes he was kept inside for the 1st 2 years,my brother thought he was cool looking and bought him,like most 20 year olds,he chose to go out and party and not really pay attention to newyear,I only had turtles at the time,no torts,but when I baby sat for him,he never mentioned him soaking and I only saw 1 light,I'm guessing a heat light,newyear was always clean,I never saw poop laying around the tote,water was clean & full,he kept newyear on repti-bark,I've learned a lot about tortoises and I was always told to use coco coir & organic soil mixed together as their substrate,my brother isn't bad,his priorities were just screwed up,anyways newyear gets cactus pads,grass,weeds,hibiscus,he has cuttlebones all over the yard,we don't have any dandelions or clover in our yard,but I do buy dandelion greens from whole foods market,he can't stand mazuri,everytime he walks up and sees it on his slate,he turns right back around..there could be strawberries & watermelon mixed in,he don't care..won't touch it! same with hay and I have tried every little trick,cut it,soak it,mix with fruit,mix with greens,that was another thing he fed newyear romaine,bell peppers,mustard & turnip greens,kale,collards..i do to,but once a week,not every day,I don't have access to mullberry leaves,that's another thing,I guess since he never soaked him,he doesn't really like water and he has water dishes everywhere,but I never see him drink,he will stay out in the rain,of course I don't let him stay in it if it's cold outside,but he will not soak in his pool,I've made him mud baths..NOTHING! but during the cooler months he will soak in the bathtub for about an hour,he stays in the house so it's easy since he's not that heavy and he loves the temp of the water to be about 103° so maybe he doesn't hate water,so I have some other pics of his plastron,gular,tail and the tail and "V" opening scream guy,but the gular and flat plastron scream girl

 

[TammyJ]

She's a lucky girl .

 

[wellington]

I think it's a male too. However the poor care could be delaying some of the male features. That happens with my rescued leopard. He looks slightly concaved on the plastron, is he? That's a male trait.

 

[Tom]

yes he was kept inside for the 1st 2 years,my brother thought he was cool looking and bought him,like most 20 year olds,he chose to go out and party and not really pay attention to newyear,I only had turtles at the time,no torts,but when I baby sat for him,he never mentioned him soaking and I only saw 1 light,I'm guessing a heat light,newyear was always clean,I never saw poop laying around the tote,water was clean & full,he kept newyear on repti-bark,I've learned a lot about tortoises and I was always told to use coco coir & organic soil mixed together as their substrate,my brother isn't bad,his priorities were just screwed up,anyways newyear gets cactus pads,grass,weeds,hibiscus,he has cuttlebones all over the yard,we don't have any dandelions or clover in our yard,but I do buy dandelion greens from whole foods market,he can't stand mazuri,everytime he walks up and sees it on his slate,he turns right back around..there could be strawberries & watermelon mixed in,he don't care..won't touch it! same with hay and I have tried every little trick,cut it,soak it,mix with fruit,mix with greens,that was another thing he fed newyear romaine,bell peppers,mustard & turnip greens,kale,collards..i do to,but once a week,not every day,I don't have access to mullberry leaves,that's another thing,I guess since he never soaked him,he doesn't really like water and he has water dishes everywhere,but I never see him drink,he will stay out in the rain,of course I don't let him stay in it if it's cold outside,but he will not soak in his pool,I've made him mud baths..NOTHING! but during the cooler months he will soak in the bathtub for about an hour,he stays in the house so it's easy since he's not that heavy and he loves the temp of the water to be about 103° so maybe he doesn't hate water,so I have some other pics of his plastron,gular,tail and the tail and "V" opening scream guy,but the gular and flat plastron scream girl

Definitely a male. 100% sure.

Tortoises eat what is familiar. The mistake you have made is trying to "feed" him a new food. It doesn't work. You have to slowly introduce new items in tiny tiny amounts over a period of weeks or months in some cases. Its important that you get him eating grass hay at this size, unless you have a huge back yard and plenty of actual grass to eat all day every day. As they get bigger, it becomes difficult to meet their food demands without hay, and "grass" either fresh or dried hay should be a large percentage of the diet. Orchard grass hay is best. Bernuda hay also works well. Don't use Timothy or alfalfa. I have two ways that I like to introduce it: 1. Make a bed of grass hay on the food tray and feed every meal on top of the hay. Don't be afraid to let him skip a few days if he wants to be picky about it. They can go weeks with no food at all and no ill effect. You aren't starving him if there is a big pile of food right in front of him. Don't mix it. Just set the pile of favorite foods on top of hay. Usually, within a month, they start nibbling at the hay and eating it with the other good stuff. 2. Finely cut up a tiny amount of hay into tiny little pieces, just a few flecks, and mix that in with a big pile of chopped up other food. There should be so little that he can't even tell it is there. If you can see strands of hay and lots of pieces, you have used WAYYYY too much. Gradually add more and more. At some point the tortoise will finally notice and balk. Back track and reduce the amount of hay for a few days, and then slowly build more back in again. In time, sometimes months, hay will become a favorite food.

I like them to also be eating spineless opuntia pads when they eat dry hay. It lubes the GI tract and gives them lots of moisture. You should be planting lots of your own optunia stands now. It takes years to mature. Speaking of moisture...

Dehydration in this species frequently kills them in one of several ways. It doesn't matter if he likes water or not. Get a big tub of some sort with tall opaque walls and soak this tortoise for an hour in warm water two or three times a week. 103 is too hot. 85-95 is just right. Leave him in there. You can get two tubs and transfer him to clean warm water after he soils the first tub if you want, but get him hydrated.

Next important detail is to have an insulated, temperature controlled night box. The tortoise should sleep closed in its box every night, and the thermostat should be set to 80. In summer, that thermostat will probably never turn the heat on, but as fall approaches and the nights get cooler, the heat will prevent respiratory infection in your damp climate. Here are two examples:

Single Tortoise Night Box

I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll...

tortoiseforum.org

Double Door Night Box

As the years have gone by and I build more of these boxes, I learn more and more each time. This one is the latest and I incorporated everything I've learned over the years. I also tried to take lots of pics so I can explain in more detail some of what is going on. It will take multiple posts to...

tortoiseforum.org

Questions about any of this are welcome.

 

[lawlessangel76]

Definitely a male. 100% sure.

Tortoises eat what is familiar. The mistake you have made is trying to "feed" him a new food. It doesn't work. You have to slowly introduce new items in tiny tiny amounts over a period of weeks or months in some cases. Its important that you get him eating grass hay at this size, unless you have a huge back yard and plenty of actual grass to eat all day every day. As they get bigger, it becomes difficult to meet their food demands without hay, and "grass" either fresh or dried hay should be a large percentage of the diet. Orchard grass hay is best. Bernuda hay also works well. Don't use Timothy or alfalfa. I have two ways that I like to introduce it: 1. Make a bed of grass hay on the food tray and feed every meal on top of the hay. Don't be afraid to let him skip a few days if he wants to be picky about it. They can go weeks with no food at all and no ill effect. You aren't starving him if there is a big pile of food right in front of him. Don't mix it. Just set the pile of favorite foods on top of hay. Usually, within a month, they start nibbling at the hay and eating it with the other good stuff. 2. Finely cut up a tiny amount of hay into tiny little pieces, just a few flecks, and mix that in with a big pile of chopped up other food. There should be so little that he can't even tell it is there. If you can see strands of hay and lots of pieces, you have used WAYYYY too much. Gradually add more and more. At some point the tortoise will finally notice and balk. Back track and reduce the amount of hay for a few days, and then slowly build more back in again. In time, sometimes months, hay will become a favorite food.

I like them to also be eating spineless opuntia pads when they eat dry hay. It lubes the GI tract and gives them lots of moisture. You should be planting lots of your own optunia stands now. It takes years to mature. Speaking of moisture...

Dehydration in this species frequently kills them in one of several ways. It doesn't matter if he likes water or not. Get a big tub of some sort with tall opaque walls and soak this tortoise for an hour in warm water two or three times a week. 103 is too hot. 85-95 is just right. Leave him in there. You can get two tubs and transfer him to clean warm water after he soils the first tub if you want, but get him hydrated.

Next important detail is to have an insulated, temperature controlled night box. The tortoise should sleep closed in its box every night, and the thermostat should be set to 80. In summer, that thermostat will probably never turn the heat on, but as fall approaches and the nights get cooler, the heat will prevent respiratory infection in your damp climate. Here are two examples:

Single Tortoise Night Box

I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll...

tortoiseforum.org

Double Door Night Box

As the years have gone by and I build more of these boxes, I learn more and more each time. This one is the latest and I incorporated everything I've learned over the years. I also tried to take lots of pics so I can explain in more detail some of what is going on. It will take multiple posts to...

tortoiseforum.org

Questions about any of this are welcome.

ok thank you,ya I figured he was a guy with that tail,oh he eats weeds & grass just fine,we have a little under an acre of land,so plenty of grass,I have tried for 7 years to get him to eat hay,and I used orchard because it's sweeter...thats what I was told,ya I live in fl,so he's pretty much outside year round except for,severe t-storms,tropical storms,hurricanes,I bring him inside when the temp drops below 60° at night,we get our 40 degree nights,but not all winter long,he had a burrow,but the city was mowing near our fence and it collapsed,thank god he wasn't in there,he hasn't dug another one in 3 years,I have made him several bed time spaces and he likes to sleep everywhere,he has even dug out a little hole in the bottom of our huge rubber tree and he loves to sleep behind a sheet of wood behind our shed,there's a tarp that hangs from the roof and connected to the fence,when it rains he never gets wet and there's a big piece of concrete there,so sometimes we sit outside and play cards,one night he woke up and scared the hell out of me,I didn't hear him walk,or move anything and he stepped on my foot,we're talking like at 2am and I screamed,he must have smelled the cucumbers & bell peppers that I was munching on,he fell back asleep at my feet after a few cucumber slices,hubby picked him up and put him back behind the board..w/out waking himis it necessary that he has one of these night boxes,or even a burrow,we have plenty of shade for him,oh when he's behind the wood,there is some dirt there and he kind of made like a little dug out to sleep ingeez I think it's harder to take care of a tortoise,especially a sulcata than a human baby,but I love newyear and try to take care of him the best I can,my brother thought he was a girl and named him...mary Jane..go figure!

 

[Tom]

ok thank you,ya I figured he was a guy with that tail,oh he eats weeds & grass just fine,we have a little under an acre of land,so plenty of grass,I have tried for 7 years to get him to eat hay,and I used orchard because it's sweeter...thats what I was told,ya I live in fl,so he's pretty much outside year round except for,severe t-storms,tropical storms,hurricanes,I bring him inside when the temp drops below 60° at night,we get our 40 degree nights,but not all winter long,he had a burrow,but the city was mowing near our fence and it collapsed,thank god he wasn't in there,he hasn't dug another one in 3 years,I have made him several bed time spaces and he likes to sleep everywhere,he has even dug out a little hole in the bottom of our huge rubber tree and he loves to sleep behind a sheet of wood behind our shed,there's a tarp that hangs from the roof and connected to the fence,when it rains he never gets wet and there's a big piece of concrete there,so sometimes we sit outside and play cards,one night he woke up and scared the hell out of me,I didn't hear him walk,or move anything and he stepped on my foot,we're talking like at 2am and I screamed,he must have smelled the cucumbers & bell peppers that I was munching on,he fell back asleep at my feet after a few cucumber slices,hubby picked him up and put him back behind the board..w/out waking himis it necessary that he has one of these night boxes,or even a burrow,we have plenty of shade for him,oh when he's behind the wood,there is some dirt there and he kind of made like a little dug out to sleep ingeez I think it's harder to take care of a tortoise,especially a sulcata than a human baby,but I love newyear and try to take care of him the best I can,my brother thought he was a girl and named him...mary Jane..go figure!

The night box is necessary. It protects them from weather, cold, rats, raccoons, ants, and so much more. 60 is way too cold. He is going to get sick that way. They need to stay above 80 at night. Bringing him in the house is not a good way to go. He needs to stay in his enclosure, and he needs a protected, warm, dry place to sleep at night.

If you tried for 7 years to get him to eat hay and did not succeed, you were not doing it right. It takes no more than a couple of months even with the most stubborn ones. Most people try to give them too much too soon.