Should I change the substrate?

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GeoTerraTestudo

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My substrate has some potting and top soil in it, and some sprouted birdseed (millet and sunflower). There is now white fungus deep in the substrate, as well as a lot of tiny fungus flies flying around. In an attempt to get rid of the flies, I got rid of all the uneaten vegetation and churned the substrate to dry it out, since these flies need a lot of moisture for their larvae. However, this kicked up a lot of dust and, being asthmatic, I got tight in the chest and had to take some medicine.

At this point, I'm starting to think that this substrate might be dangerous for me, and maybe the tortoises as well. Should I just change it out completely? I'm thinking of replacing it with just pure coco coir instead.
 

Yvonne G

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If its causing you a breathing problem, then you definitely should change it out. Have you ever used cypress mulch?
 

GeoTerraTestudo

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emysemys said:
If its causing you a breathing problem, then you definitely should change it out. Have you ever used cypress mulch?

I used to in Florida, but here in Colorado, I cannot find it in bulk at hardware stores, only in small, expensive bags at pet stores. If I could find it I would get it, but I guess coco coir is the only other good substrate readily available here.
 

GeoTerraTestudo

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BTW - I have to say, I am pretty tired of these little flies appearing when I use substrates from gardening stores, like top soil, potting soil, and even cypress mulch. Gardening store supplies are cheaper than pet store supplies, but if the reason pet store substrates are more expensive, is that they sterilize their soils, then I'm beginning to feel that it's worth it. I know these tiny gnats are harmless, both to humans and tortoises, but they are very annoying. As for the fungi that grow in soils, although they rarely actually cause lung infections, they do trigger my asthma if I stir up the substrate, so I'm beginning to think I should avoid soil, too. I guess I'll just stick to coco coir after this.
 

pdelpizzo

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GeoTerraTestudo said:
emysemys said:
If its causing you a breathing problem, then you definitely should change it out. Have you ever used cypress mulch?

I used to in Florida, but here in Colorado, I cannot find it in bulk at hardware stores, only in small, expensive bags at pet stores. If I could find it I would get it, but I guess coco coir is the only other good substrate readily available here.

I've found large bags of cypress mulch available on-line from gardening stores for much cheaper than the pet stores, even with shipping costs. As you said though, those bags also come with flies. I agree they are annoying!

Patrick
 
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Maggie Cummings

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I suggest you are keeping your soil too wet. I use cypress mulch for most of my habitats and fine grade orchid bark in the rest. I keep the soil damp and stir it up with my hand regularly. I pour water over it, and stir it up to make sure it's all damp without dust. Then in a week or so I do it again and I don't ever get those flies I read about. I stir it up often, and I don't get any mold either. But I don't have anything growing in the soil so it's easier to keep the mold away with the stirring.
 

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That's true about growing seeds in the soil. People advise it, but it makes it difficult to keep mixed and moistened. Maybe rotating small containers with sprouted seeds in and out of the enclosure to bypass this. Or maybe potting soil is worse than plain topsoil or dirt?
I can't find Cypress mulch on line from anyone for a reasonable price.
Patrick, which online store do you use?
I did find some online through Pet Mountain, not too bad.
 

GeoTerraTestudo

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Well, here's the scoop. Although the Home Depot in my area doesn't carry cypress mulch, I did find big 3.5-cubic-foot bags of the stuff at our local chain (McGuckins - they have everything). They also have big blocks of coconut coir as well. After thinking it over, I decided to stick with pure coconut coir, because it is clean, safer to use than sand, does not carry gnats or fungi like soils do, and is more "diggable" than cypress mulch, which can also harbor gnats and fungi (including dangerous shell fungi). I like the moisture-holding capacity of coco coir, too. Plus, I figured that since Russian tortoise come from open habitats, a woody substrate would seem rather alien to them. So I got the coco coir, and this time I won't be adding anything else to it, either. My tortoises seem to like it, too, and now that I have found a good bulk source of it, I think this is my new favorite substrate. :)
 

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This may sound strange but try baking your soil..On some of my snake and monitors required soil for humidity I would first put it on a tray in the oven for 15-20 minutes..at 400*F until it started to steam... I would then add the substrate to the cage and prepare another tray for the oven...Never had an issue with bugs or mold..

Just a suggestion..good luck
 

GeoTerraTestudo

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Tony the tank said:
This may sound strange but try baking your soil..On some of my snake and monitors required soil for humidity I would first put it on a tray in the oven for 15-20 minutes..at 400*F until it started to steam... I would then add the substrate to the cage and prepare another tray for the oven...Never had an issue with bugs or mold..

Just a suggestion..good luck

That is a great suggestion, and I did consider doing that. However, if the substrate is true soil, then even if it has been sterilized, it could still get recolonized by fungi or insects down the road (although that might not be very likely). However, coco coir is soil-like but does not contain the nutrients that soil contains, so it would be moist and comfortable for the tortoises, but a "barren desert" for smaller organisms (and any seeds that might sprout, too).
 

GeoTerraTestudo

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Well, I put in coco coir about 6 inches deep, and the torties seem to be liking it. They even dig down into it and cover themselves, which they rarely did with the other stuff. The male even burrowed to the bottom of the tub! And just as importantly, there's no allergenic dust, so I can breathe normally again. :) Here's a picture to give you an idea of how it looks now.
 

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CtTortoiseMom

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We cannot find cypress near us either. We had big bag's shipped from amazon. I am waiting to place another order until it is freezing outside so I can leave the bags in the garage and freeze any critters it could contain.
 

lynnedit

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GeoTerraTestudo said:
Well, I put in coco coir about 6 inches deep, and the torties seem to be liking it. They even dig down into it and cover themselves, which they rarely did with the other stuff. The male even burrowed to the bottom of the tub! And just as importantly, there's no allergenic dust, so I can breathe normally again. :) Here's a picture to give you an idea of how it looks now.

That looks good, obviously a success for your torts!
 

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Seems like you've got it all worked out. I like orchid bark too.

A note about the "gnats". They are most likely phorid flies and they are just in the environment. Even if you use sterilized soil or pet store stuff, they will still show up if you have warmth, moisture and a food source for them.

Everyone who keep bins of roaches knows all about them. :D
 

lynnedit

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Tom said:
Seems like you've got it all worked out. I like orchid bark too.

A note about the "gnats". They are most likely phorid flies and they are just in the environment. Even if you use sterilized soil or pet store stuff, they will still show up if you have warmth, moisture and a food source for them.

Everyone who keep bins of roaches knows all about them. :D

Oooooh, something to look forward to!
 

GeoTerraTestudo

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Tom said:
Seems like you've got it all worked out. I like orchid bark too.

A note about the "gnats". They are most likely phorid flies and they are just in the environment. Even if you use sterilized soil or pet store stuff, they will still show up if you have warmth, moisture and a food source for them.

Everyone who keep bins of roaches knows all about them. :D

I see. Yep, that must be them, all right. Unfortunately, I've seen them around the waste basket in my kitchen when I haven't taken the garbage out in a while. Sad to know they thought of my tortoise tubs in the same way! Now it's clean, though. Over the past three days, the flies have been quickly disappearing.
 
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