Sick baby sulcata?? Please help!!

[Jenna kamenski]

Hi all

This is jenna and I believe my baby sulcata might be sick...I'm hoping I can get some help, especially since there isn't any reptile vets available in my area...I live in Greenville sc...I've been reading on these threads ever since we got trooper and I knew this was the place to go...

We bought trooper from myturtlestore.com a month ago exactly and was way more active than he is now...the day after Christmas is when we noticed him not being active and always keeping his eyes shut, moves around every so often, not eating much...his eyelids are white and from what I've read throughout different threads is he might have a vitamin deficiency??

His basking spot ranges from 95-100 and outside of his basking area ranges from 80-85, he used to be in a 30-40 gal Rubbermaid tote but switched it up last night to a 10gal aquarium and the reason why we switched it up is because we found out his uv light was too far away from him and my fiancé thought the switch up would be best to monitor his activity and wanted to make sure he is getting the uv light...

we just bought him a 80w solar glo yesterday and also using zoomed reptisun 10 uvb...

Yesterday I soaked him in the carrot baby food twice, both times for about 30 min, soaked him again today in the carrot baby food for about 30 min as well and he even went to the bathroom in the soak today, also soaked him again a little bit ago in just water for about 10 min...each time while soaking his eyes open up and seems a bit happy, walks around a little but seems weak...put him back in his tank, he walks around some and closes his eyes...I got him to eat a little bit of kale yesterday after his soak...today I gave him the mazuri diet and from what I can tell he hasn't touched it...I got him some orchard hay today and spread it throughout his tank and in his food bowl in hopes that he might eat it...I'm not really sure what I left out and what other information might needed so please ask what I may of left out...

I'm going to attach some pictures of trooper...
the first pic is from his soak yest
The 2nd, 3rd and 4th pic is before his 10 min soak just a little bit ago
And the last is after his 10 min soak

What other information is needed? What could be wrong with trooper and what do we need to do??? Please help!!

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome.

A few questions:
What type of reptisun 10.0? CFL or long strip light type?
What are you using for night heat?
Do you know if this baby was started with the old dry routine, or the newer hydrated routine?
Is the plastron (bottom shell) soft and squishy like a sponge?
What substrate are you using and what is your ambient humidity?

Babies won't eat hay. Its just going to mold, so I'd remove that.

Here is that care info for this species. Give it all a read through and see if any changes need to be made to your set up:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

 

[Jenna kamenski]

Tom,
I know it's not a long strip but I'll include a picture of what it looks like...my fiancé isn't here right now to school me on what kind the uvb is exactly lol...we've been using a space heater in front of his tank as a heat source because it wasn't getting too cold out yet...we did buy a 100w nighttime incandescent heat bulb yesterday which was used for a little bit last night but my fiancé told me he turned it off because it got to 110 but tonight we will figure out a way to use it...how hott is too hott??

Not sure what routine the baby was started with...

Plastron doesn't feel soft and squishy like a sponge, kinda feels more springy...

For the substrate we are using organic topsoil and coco coir because we read around it would be a great mix

Humidity is at 50%...I know it has to be much higher than that...sometimes it gets up to 60% but we struggle to get it much higher...we did have plans to build him an enclosure but that got put on hold since he became sick...what is the best way to raise the humidity?? What can we do to nurse him back to health? Are we too late?? Here is a pic of the light...

 

[wellington]

That's a coil bulb that you may have read about on here about being bad and causing eye problems. Stop using it.
Also get him out of that 10 gal aquarium asap, it's way too small and it's impossible to get the correct temp range and for him to have everything he needs plus exercise.

 

[Jenna kamenski]

Also, this is what the bottom of his plastron looks like...I'm guessing the dark spot in the middle is where the egg sack was?? He had that since we first got him and appears to have gotten a bit smaller...

 

[Jenna kamenski]

That's a coil bulb that you may have read about on here about being bad and causing eye problems. Stop using it.
Also get him out of that 10 gal aquarium asap, it's way too small and it's impossible to get the correct temp range and for him to have everything he needs plus exercise.

Yeah I told him the 10 gal was way too small because I figured the bigger, the better...but he thought putting him in the 10gal was a good way to monitor him...will def move him out asap

 

[wellington]

Yeah I told him the 10 gal was way too small because I figured the bigger, the better...but he thought putting him in the 10gal was a good way to monitor him...will def move him out asap

He guessed wrong. A 10 gal is too small for just about anything.

 

[Tom]

Also, this is what the bottom of his plastron looks like...I'm guessing the dark spot in the middle is where the egg sack was?? He had that since we first got him and appears to have gotten a bit smaller...

Babies have a relatively small margin of error, too dry, too cold, too hot, and they can crash pretty quickly. This might be a factor in your case, but maybe not.

There was no point in moving him to a tiny tank, and the stress did not help anything.

Bought-in-a-bag soil is not a good substrate because it is messy and turns to mud when you wet it, and because there is no way to know what it is made of. Is it composted plant clippings treated with systemic pesticides? Oleander clippings? Or maybe its mulberry and hibiscus leaves? No way to know.

Coco coir is ok, but its also too messy for this species. Fine grade orchid bark works best.

The cfl bulb is not an effective UV source and some of them are dangerous to reptile eyes.

The most likely cause of your issue is an incorrect dry start. The open umbilical scar is a big clue for this. Your baby was kept in dry conditions, put into an enclosure too soon, and not old enough to be sold and shipped across the country. Here is my best guess about what is going on: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/

In contrast, this is how they should be started:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-incubate-eggs-and-start-hatchlings.124266/

Sellers like the one you bought from buy in large quantities from the cheapest source possible. They probably don't have any idea how this baby was started either, but the picture you posted tells me all I need to know. Read #1 in that beginner mistakes thread I linked for you.

I know this info is a bummer, but isn't it better to know what is likely happening and what to expect? At least you know it isn't/wasn't your fault. Some of them pull through and do just fine, so don't give up. Read those threads and make the enclosure, lighting and temperatures as good as you can make them.

Good luck to you, and please feel free to ask lots more questions.

 

[Jenna kamenski]

Hello yall! its LOU the fiancé... AKA hard time giver

i appreciate the help and this forum is awesome from what i hear! i was a member of many forums as a child... car audio... computer... reptile... so cheers to tortoiseforum.org

so i just read "Hatchling Failure Syndrome"... i completely understand the dry start issues and why it would turn him into a "ticking time bomb"... i got quite upset... know I am ALWAYS hard... so straight up! his organs are good and he WILL become strong again!!!



i had an iguana that i saved... picked him up at an exotic pet store when i was a child... someone had dumped him... he had no strength at all... like pick him up and limbs were rubber when you shook him... never moved his limbs on his own... head all the way bent down... soft jaw... if you put some kale in his mouth he didn't have the strength to chew...

i got him good by a vitamin gel and tons of attention and pushing him around... he became very strong! great male iguana mate to my female i had from thumb size he lived 7 years after that and based on his size when i found him i would say he died at 11 or 12



so back to trooper... the boy is not rubber and when you shake him and tell him hes got to eat he kicks and his neck has goodstrength he doesn't seem weak... just always tired... if you just leave him still he wants to do nothing... thats how he was living tonight after midnight and he is used to going to sleep around 10:30

i managed to get him to eat some of his pellet... got 3 maybe 4 good bites... thats all he was eating when he was super active all day… plus a lot of greens…. i will continue to keep this guy moving and eating!

we picked up some fluker's liquid vitamin for reptiles... basic petco vitamin, if you know a real good vitamin ill order it...


Fluker's nutrition

Vitamin A 913,240 IU

Vitamin D3 73,060 IU

Vitamin B1 548 mg

Vitamin B2 785 mg

Vitamin B6 182 mg

Vitamin C 9130 mg

Nicotinamide 3652 mg

says offer 2 drops per 50grams of reptile body weight


had him on a scale the other day he was 43-48 grams... he got almost 1 drop tonight... if it can soak into his neck skin he got 2 drops

before we switched to the soil and coco core... we had the larger chunks of orchid bark and cypress mulch...

unless we were to pour cups of water into the mix till it was floating the humidity would just not go up... so thats why we tried the soil and coco... the soil is "organic" so hopefully no harmful chemicals...

i know the tank is WAY too small... but its like he doesn't walk around at all anyways... i had thought the small area would keep humidity...

10 gallon tank, 2 inches of soil and coco core. i mix in around a cup of water and i get 60% humidity... he is always laying around at this point do you think its safe to add say 2 cups??? he is laying on it... plastron flat on the soil…

I will be building him a 4ft x 2ft x 2ft MDF enclosure with a hinged Plexiglas top… unless you think it should be taller with lights inside?!? I will build something bigger in 1 ½ or 2 years im guessing…

sad to say but the money we had to spend went to his Solar glo all in one and his purple night bulb

exo terra solar glo all in one... This is a good source of lighting for him?


Until I get the enclosure built should I raise the lights up and just add more soil to raise the humidity? Or say instead of just one cup water mixed in I add 2 cups??? is it ok for him to lay plastron flat on soil that is damp like that?



The purple night light is hung and keeping him 75degs or so tonight…



Thank you all!

 

[TechnoCheese]

The heat should never go below 80, ever. That brings in the possibility for respiratory infections. I would recommend getting a ceramic heat emitter, it emits heat but no light.

You probably won’t be able to get the humidity high enough without a closed chamber. If you have a wire mesh top, cover it in tin foil and cut out circles for the lights