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Nixxy said:
Agreed!!!
sillyness, again and again and again and again and again
- Thread starter Kapidolo Farms
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Agreed!!!
EricIvins said:
Disagree. If it weren't for the regurgitated info, as you call it. Most of us wouldn't have gotten any help. BTW, as i'v said before. If you learned it from someone, and you pass the info on, you just regurgitated. Where amd what are the credential
Of an expert? Belonging to a club doesn't make an expert! Hatching a few dozen of clutches a year, doesn't make an expert! Hell, being a vet doesn't make you an expert, unless you a reptile certified vet. Tom, has contributed more to this forum then anyone that would call themselves an expert. Tom himself, has said it many times, he's not an expert and is still learning. You want to talk to the so called experts. Just start a thread. In the first post of the thread, as members to please not as the typical beginner questions. Also ask that they stay on topic. When or if you feel that particular topic should be closed, as for no more post on that topic. Some won't adhere to what your asking, most of us I think will. I am a proud 1 and 3 and have helped a lot of members. Infact I don't believe i'v had a number 2 help me at all!
At least not the kind of 2 you and Will are talking about!
Can't we just drop this discussion? I mean, 11 pages of post, going back and forth, around and around is insanity. Labeling members as a 1,2,3 is just begging for an argument. Frankly, it's insulting and denigrates all members here. The majority here think that no one should be excluded from responding to any thread. Scientific discussions can still take place, and most of us encourage it, but placing requirements or criteria to be able to respond goes against the principles of this forum. Nothing is going to change the core principles that created the need for this type of forum. So, despite individual's objections or support, josh isn't going to jeopardize the future of this site on the wimp of a couple of elite members, period. So, can't we just move on and wait to see how things turn out?
"It seems to me that "someone" has mixed up a tainted batter and baked a cake, and now that someone is sitting back, watching, as everyone is eating the tainted cake."
I think the forum is fine just the way it is. If it wasn't, it wouldn't have as many members as it has. Why fix it if it isn't broke. If you don't like all the fun posts, don't read them.
I think the forum is fine just the way it is. If it wasn't, it wouldn't have as many members as it has. Why fix it if it isn't broke. If you don't like all the fun posts, don't read them.
Wellington you do a great job trying to help people out so try not to get upset. As far as the number system goes 1,2,3 I learned something along time ago, CONSIDER THE SOURCE.
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- Jul 21, 2012
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- 127
sibi said:
Eric, I may ask, have you ever told your children to much candy rots their teeth? Oh no! You just likely passed regurgitated information, because that is likely what your parents told you.
Have you done a field research study on every species you have ever given out info on? Well, unless you have, any info you have thus passed is regurgitated. Whether or not you have had a chance to APPLY it is meaningless; it is still regurgitated. There would be no form without "regurgitated" information.
I think everyone is getting confused here. What, exactly, would be wrong with a "serious discussion" forum? No one would need to be excluded. Shoot, all that was asked for was a topic section without the constant tea party and tortoise balloon animals. Is that so hard? Oh, wait, for a taste of your own medicine....Don't read it. Those of you so opposed to if because you feel you would be "excluded", well, then, don't read it. Just as simple as you say. I don't get the problem here. The idea, as I see it, was to have a section of topics to PLEASE EVERYONE. Not just to please you, though there is no reason it should displease you.
It seems it somehow insults everyone, the idea of a topic thats not entirely devoted to THEIR needs. Nobody would be treated unequally...I don't get where on earth that came up. If anyone had something valuable to say, they would be free to say it. What is the reason for opposition? Because other members may be pleased with it, other then yourselves? If you don't like it, don't need to read it. "Its that simple" in your own words.
Have you done a field research study on every species you have ever given out info on? Well, unless you have, any info you have thus passed is regurgitated. Whether or not you have had a chance to APPLY it is meaningless; it is still regurgitated. There would be no form without "regurgitated" information.
I think everyone is getting confused here. What, exactly, would be wrong with a "serious discussion" forum? No one would need to be excluded. Shoot, all that was asked for was a topic section without the constant tea party and tortoise balloon animals. Is that so hard? Oh, wait, for a taste of your own medicine....Don't read it. Those of you so opposed to if because you feel you would be "excluded", well, then, don't read it. Just as simple as you say. I don't get the problem here. The idea, as I see it, was to have a section of topics to PLEASE EVERYONE. Not just to please you, though there is no reason it should displease you.
It seems it somehow insults everyone, the idea of a topic thats not entirely devoted to THEIR needs. Nobody would be treated unequally...I don't get where on earth that came up. If anyone had something valuable to say, they would be free to say it. What is the reason for opposition? Because other members may be pleased with it, other then yourselves? If you don't like it, don't need to read it. "Its that simple" in your own words.
RedfootsRule said:
Please explain how creating a new section is doing anything other than pleasing your, Will's, and the other supporters' needs. You all are currently expressing frustration with topics that aren't devoted to your needs. Why complicate this? The forum meets the needs of MOST of the members, and that's as good as a forum can do.
RedfootsRule said:
I let the Dentist do that for me. That is his job......
I've done Field Research, but not on any Exotic species. Again, the information I post is on CAPTIVE husbandry and how it applies to CAPTIVITY. I fail to understand the relevance between field research and captive situations. Two completely different entities......There may be convergent evolution between the two, but captivity is captivity and nature is nature. A comparison can't be drawn between the two in regards to the application of captive husbandry.......
It bothers me when I see a member answer a question and I know that member doesn't keep the type of tortoise being asked about. In my opinion, I believe that if you are going to answer a question with "regurgitated" information, you should first make a disclaimer.
If no one has answered a question and I can give general info, but not first hand knowledge of the species, I will ALWAYS say, "I don't keep this species of tortoise, but I have read that blah, blah, blah." That way the person who asked the question can take my answer or leave it. Plus, 9 times out of 10, when someone who DOES keep that species of tortoise sees my response, they will come in and help the person who asked the question.
If no one has answered a question and I can give general info, but not first hand knowledge of the species, I will ALWAYS say, "I don't keep this species of tortoise, but I have read that blah, blah, blah." That way the person who asked the question can take my answer or leave it. Plus, 9 times out of 10, when someone who DOES keep that species of tortoise sees my response, they will come in and help the person who asked the question.
Yvonne you have a point, but what if someone knows certain facts about the species from reading? Like maybe average size, temperament, etc.
I have all my pets in my sig, so if I say sulcatas are the third biggest tortoise in the world, people can look down and see I don't own a sulcata. When I see people on the leopard forum making comments, I usually look at the sig to see if they own one, if they have pets listed. Many people making comments don't own leopards, but if they've been here for a while with hundreds or thousands of posts and actively read the forum, I don't dismiss their comments.
I agree with sibi that segregating ourselves into certain categories and dictating who can say what is only going to cause hard feelings and less members.
Since Eric mentioned #3s as "self proclaimed experts", what makes someone a genuine "expert" who we should listen to? There are still breeders who breed and raise dry, pyramided tortoises and have done so for decades. Is that person "expert" enough to take advice from? I'm sure there are casual tortoise owners who've spent enough time here to teach them a thing or two.
I have all my pets in my sig, so if I say sulcatas are the third biggest tortoise in the world, people can look down and see I don't own a sulcata. When I see people on the leopard forum making comments, I usually look at the sig to see if they own one, if they have pets listed. Many people making comments don't own leopards, but if they've been here for a while with hundreds or thousands of posts and actively read the forum, I don't dismiss their comments.
I agree with sibi that segregating ourselves into certain categories and dictating who can say what is only going to cause hard feelings and less members.
Since Eric mentioned #3s as "self proclaimed experts", what makes someone a genuine "expert" who we should listen to? There are still breeders who breed and raise dry, pyramided tortoises and have done so for decades. Is that person "expert" enough to take advice from? I'm sure there are casual tortoise owners who've spent enough time here to teach them a thing or two.
cristal redfoot said:
I agree, it would be nice if some people would get past their egos.
Yvonne, like Jason, I too feel that I don't have to own a particular species of animal to know a lot about them. For instance, I don't own a cat, but I know that if you want to avoid urinary problems, you should buy foods with the least amount of ash. I picked this scenario because it's something that most cat owner don't know; yet, I knew that. If I give "regurgitated" information (which, btw, i find offensive because I like to think of it as "learned"), who's to say that I don't have something constructive to contribute? Some information is so easy to absorb, who's to say that it isn't worth consideration. I'm rather surprised that you felt like this because many times, based on actual experience or similar experience or even on common knowledge, i have posted remarks or advice to others. So, what you're saying is that it bothers you that i could offer advice about animals i don't own. Really?
Please explain how creating a new section is doing anything other than pleasing your, Will's, and the other supporters' needs. You all are currently expressing frustration with topics that aren't devoted to your needs. Why complicate this? The forum meets the needs of MOST of the members, and that's as good as a forum can do.
[/quote]
Thank you, Mr. Jorgenson, you have hit the nail right on the head. A new topics section of this nature would please Will and all other supporters; one of those supporters being myself. Now, what I can't understand, is....how would that be a bad thing? No, the forum will nEVER please everyone. BUT, it can come close. Creating an "Advanced discussion" topics section would be one step closer. Tell me, please, how would that EVER be a bad thing? Is it bad just because it isn't tailored towards you, and is tailored towards meeting the desire of others? In the words of many here, if you don't like it, just ignore it. Pretend it doesn't even exist.
As Will explained, a section like this could be very helpful. Perhaps it would attract a new set of members, with a whole knew set of experience...How would this be a bad thing?
emysemys said:
I agree. You should not usually answer questions about a species unless you keep said species. However, this is a completely different thing then "regurgitated" information. Yvonne, I hope you know that likely, almost everything you say is regurgitated. I'm quite sure you read it in a book, on the internet, heard it in a speech, or some other form. YOU did not research it yourself, or at least most of it. In the (12?) years I've kept tortoises....I will humbly say, MOST of what I know, I learned elsewhere. Now, I have learned a lot myself, but this is mostly about their behavior....Most husbandry aspects were learned elsewhere. It is the same case with everyone, whether they would like to deny it or accept it.
I just don't understand where on earth the opposition for a new topics section of this nature is coming from. The opposers seem to want to say every other word "You don't like the silliness, don't read it and move on." I question, why it is, that they are unable to follow their own advice? If a topics section as suggested is made, IF you don't like it, then follow your own advice and completely ignore it. Never visit it. However, I am quite confident you would find yourself visiting it often, as I feel there would be a strong flow of new information that everyone would love to learn....
There has not been one justifiable reason for the opposition of the topic section suggested, other then then objection to excluding certain members. Yes, it is a bad idea to have only certain members invited and others excluded. But, if everyone is allowed to post here....Then there is absolutely no way you can reason that it would be a bad thing, other then complaining that its not just for you....
I find the idea of needing to own something in order to know things about it ridiculous. That's like saying only a parent can be a child psychologist or a pediatrician.
And really, if this section is open to anyone, how would it be any different than posting a "serious" discussion in say, tortoise health? Breeding? You'll just be making more work for the moderators if only super-serious, expert posts are to be made in this section.
I doubt it's going to happen. It sounds too exclusive and unnecessary. But what someone could do is gather a list of people who want such a section and start a free message board. Be your own admin. Just a place to go in order to assure no silliness is allowed. I've run free boards in the past and you can set one up in a few minutes.
And really, if this section is open to anyone, how would it be any different than posting a "serious" discussion in say, tortoise health? Breeding? You'll just be making more work for the moderators if only super-serious, expert posts are to be made in this section.
I doubt it's going to happen. It sounds too exclusive and unnecessary. But what someone could do is gather a list of people who want such a section and start a free message board. Be your own admin. Just a place to go in order to assure no silliness is allowed. I've run free boards in the past and you can set one up in a few minutes.
Sorry, but you know absolutely nothing about me and what I know about turtles and tortoises. I have had turtles and tortoise for about 40 years. I must admit that during the first 30 or so years I was keeping my tortoises the way I was taught, however I can honestly say that there is nothing old school on my property anymore. Everything I do for my tortoises I do from first hand experience. You can go Wa-a-a-a-y back and double check that I am the first one to offer soaking sick tortoises in baby food. I learned this all by myself. No one told me about it and I didn't read it. When I first suggested it I was almost laughed off the YAHOO listserv that I belonged to. There are many more instances, however at 74 years of age I can't remember most of them. And besides, didn't you understand that I ALWAYS preface a post that I know nothing about the species with, "I don't keep this species, but I've read..."?
emysemys said:
Okay, Yvonne, so you are, in essence, saying that every food item you offer to your tortoise, you learned from first-hand experience all the benefits it offered, or if it was even safe to feed? Completely absurd. Now, you have used this in first-hand experience, as have we all...But you did not LEARN it in first hand experience. Thus, most things you say, was once read, learned, somewhere, and makes it regurgitated; the fact that you had applied it in your care is regardless. Also, you just admitted that the first 30 years you did what you were taught...Well, you are one of the few here that has kept tortoises for 40 years. The rest of us are still in our first 30 years....So I will proudly keep passing on what you refer to as "regurgitated". The only difference between you, me, and Eric, is that I am humble enough to admit it, not try to deny it out of pride....
RedfootsRule said:
So the fact that Yvonne was and is running a turtle and tortoise rescue and has rehabbed countless species of turtles and tortoises with her own hands and then has taken that expertise and used it on this forum is regurgitating information?
This thread is a real cluster of elitism mixed with anti-intellectualism.
Regurgitation is being confused with digestion by some and that confusion is being parroted in regurgitated fashion. If you understand the information fully, you have digested it. If you repeat it after having fully understood it, it is not regurgitation. If you repeat it without fully understanding the information, you are regurgitating it. The difference is defined by the depth of your understanding. It seems many do not understand even that difference.
Regurgitation is being confused with digestion by some and that confusion is being parroted in regurgitated fashion. If you understand the information fully, you have digested it. If you repeat it after having fully understood it, it is not regurgitation. If you repeat it without fully understanding the information, you are regurgitating it. The difference is defined by the depth of your understanding. It seems many do not understand even that difference.
IMO - Its not regurgitated information if someone took the information, carefully considered the pros and cons, applied it to their own situation, had positive results, and then recommended it to others. That is information that has been tested and withstood scrutiny.
Regurgitated information is when you hear someone say something like "carrots are bad for tortoises" and then, without ever feeding your tortoise carrots and without doing any further research or consulting any other sources, you re-post the message "carrots are bad for tortoises."
Regurgitated information happens in forum settings. Its almost impossible to avoid. So, as a reader, I ask myself "where did this person obtain this information or opinion?" "What is this advice based on?" "Does it make sense?" These are questions that all tort owners need to ask themselves when reading advice given on a public forum (or anywhere). Never blindly accept advice given by strangers.
You beat me to it, Boah. Well said.
Regurgitated information is when you hear someone say something like "carrots are bad for tortoises" and then, without ever feeding your tortoise carrots and without doing any further research or consulting any other sources, you re-post the message "carrots are bad for tortoises."
Regurgitated information happens in forum settings. Its almost impossible to avoid. So, as a reader, I ask myself "where did this person obtain this information or opinion?" "What is this advice based on?" "Does it make sense?" These are questions that all tort owners need to ask themselves when reading advice given on a public forum (or anywhere). Never blindly accept advice given by strangers.
Baoh said:
You beat me to it, Boah. Well said.
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