Slow to no growth/weight gain

[Anderson]

Hello everyone:

I made a post a few days ago about my new sulcata and it has been almost two full weeks since I got little Hercules. My previous post is here with all of his living conditions:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/new-owner-my-sulcata-set-up.161625/

My worry is that despite eating and pooping regularly, Hercules has not seen any meaningful growth. I weighed him the first day I got him at 44 grams and since then, he has fluctuated between 45-46 grams. I have been feeding him a mix of dandelion, cactus, bok choi, collard greens, and other greens.

I am also worried about how long it takes for his shell and plastron to harden up. Again, he is probably less than 2 months old so it could just be normal. Because everything is not completely hard, I started adding more calcium in his food. However, I fear that it may have caused him to have hard urates. This is surprising since I soak him twice a day for 20-30 minutes each soak. He also has a water dish accessible at all times. His enclosure is also always over 70% humidity. I find it hard to believe that he can possibly be dehydrated!

If anyone can help with these concerns, it is greatly appreciated!! Feel free to ask anything that may help diagnose the issue. My worst fear is Hatchling Failure Syndrome... If a vet visit is required, so be it.

Thank you!

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

My worst fear is Hatchling Failure Syndrome...

I’m sorry I can’t help you directly here, but the one thing I can tell you is that the “Hatchling Failure Syndrome” is a mysterious, made-up by incompetent breeders, nonexistent malady to redirect poor habits that some breeders have because they refuse to charge their ways to help give hatchlings the proper start they need in life. Ask @Tom how many babies he produces annually, and how many suffer from hatchling failure syndrome. Trust me here, you be very surprised by his numbers. And it’s not just some fluke that Tom has going on. Most breeders, doing things right share his same success rate/ratio.

 

[Alaskamike]

I briefly scanned your original post & replies. Seems you have gotten good advice in tweaking your set up.

Presuming you have a good environment in place , the lack of growth you see is not ( yet ) a great cause 4 concern. You’ve followed his growth / progress 4 2 weeks. That is a very short time. You say he is eating & eliminating , is he active - at least part of the time?

Little sully should be scooting around looking for food & exploring st least a few hours each day. They do rest - allot. This too is normal.

If it were me - I would continue to monitor temps , humidity, activity & food intake. Clear gets & movement , exercise will , or should spur weight gain & growth soon. It takes a bit of time for a tortoise to adjust to changes. They are creatures of habit. Stress , the stress of a new environment, can increase their cortisone levels which can slow gains.

Don’t worry too much. Provide the best you can & he should soon respond.

Good fortune to you both.

 

[Anderson]

Thank you so much! I will update in a few weeks once I get a larger sample size of weigh ins.

 

[Bass.Isles]

Thank you so much! I will update in a few weeks once I get a larger sample size of weigh ins.

I got isla 7 months ago, and she was 18-20 months old and barely 270 grams. I cannot tell you how many times I PM'd @Tom - freaking out about how she wasn't gaining weight or "whats this funny bump on her shell?" lol.... but now she has more than doubled in weight and is doing great. I think sometimes a move to a completely new environment, especially from like, a petstore to the lovely accommodations you are providing, may just be kind of a shock lol. I'm sure he/she will thrive just fine, with the care you are providing. give it another month or so and see. How often are you weighing him/her? I made myself cut back to once every 10 days bc the fluctuations were freakin me out lol

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

I check weekly but if there’s no real weight gain I don’t enter it. I just skip that weeks weigh in. I didn’t like the microscopic fluctuations either.

 

[Anderson]

Thank you for your replies and kind words!

I have been weighing him/her almost twice a day after soaking. I know it seems obsessive (which it probably is), but am hoping for just any sign of weight gain! From what I've been reading, if hatchlings make it over the 50 gram mark, the possibility of hatchling failure syndrome is greatly diminished. I will continue doing my best to make sure the conditions are perfect for him/her! I will also cut back on obsessively weighing him as they freak me out as well! I will update if I see any major changes in the near future!

Thank you again!

 

[JoesMum]

Thank you for your replies and kind words!

I have been weighing him/her almost twice a day after soaking. I know it seems obsessive (which it probably is), but am hoping for just any sign of weight gain! From what I've been reading, if hatchlings make it over the 50 gram mark, the possibility of hatchling failure syndrome is greatly diminished. I will continue doing my best to make sure the conditions are perfect for him/her! I will also cut back on obsessively weighing him as they freak me out as well! I will update if I see any major changes in the near future!

Thank you again!

Twice a day is obsessive! Their weight varies through the day just like yours does and at that size a pee or a poop can make a massive difference

Try to weigh no more than once a week and do it at roughly the same time of day each time for consistency.

A baby like that should be soaked daily for at least 20 minutes in warm water. I find soaks to be most successful first thing in the morning and, given that they inevitably pee and poop during a soak, weighing straight after makes sense.

 

[Maro2Bear]

Agree with what others here have already posted. Get the heat, lighting, humidity straight...closed enclosure, daily morning soaking in nice warm water, then back in the enclosure.

• I also like to add in...don't mess about too much with your young sully. I think they need a period of adjustment, and no fiddling.
• Get into a normal, daily routine. Lights on....soaking...feeding...lights off.
• Offer a bit of regular Mazuri as well when young...

Good luck, keep posting.

 

[Tom]

Hello everyone:

I made a post a few days ago about my new sulcata and it has been almost two full weeks since I got little Hercules. My previous post is here with all of his living conditions:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/new-owner-my-sulcata-set-up.161625/

My worry is that despite eating and pooping regularly, Hercules has not seen any meaningful growth. I weighed him the first day I got him at 44 grams and since then, he has fluctuated between 45-46 grams. I have been feeding him a mix of dandelion, cactus, bok choi, collard greens, and other greens.

I am also worried about how long it takes for his shell and plastron to harden up. Again, he is probably less than 2 months old so it could just be normal. Because everything is not completely hard, I started adding more calcium in his food. However, I fear that it may have caused him to have hard urates. This is surprising since I soak him twice a day for 20-30 minutes each soak. He also has a water dish accessible at all times. His enclosure is also always over 70% humidity. I find it hard to believe that he can possibly be dehydrated!

If anyone can help with these concerns, it is greatly appreciated!! Feel free to ask anything that may help diagnose the issue. My worst fear is Hatchling Failure Syndrome... If a vet visit is required, so be it.

Thank you!

Hi Anderson. Since you've only had him a couple of weeks, I think its a little too early to worry. Give him some time, and you only need to weigh him once or twice a week. Many of them have an adjustment period of a few weeks after moving to a new home, where their growth slows way down or stops. Not a big deal. Everything might be fine.

The hard urates have nothing to do with the calcium. @Will taught all of us this a year or two ago. Those urates are the product of protein digestion. They are concentrated into that hardened form because at some point the tortoise wasn't getting soaked enough and it was dehydrated. Now that you have been housing him correctly and soaking daily, the urates are passing. This is a very good sign. You probably won't see urates again for a year or more when you stop soaking every day.

If your baby was previously dehydrated and kidney damage was done, there is nothing any vet can do. No amount of time, effort or money will undo previous damage, IF any damage was done. I'm not ready to assume that damage was done yet. The best course of action is to give the baby the best conditions you can and continue the daily soaks. The baby will either pull through or not. Many of them make it, so don't give up.

 

[Anderson]

Thank you @Tom. Are there any obvious symptoms of kidney damage? I guess what I am really looking for is at what point can I feel like I am, "out of the woods?" Any advice is helpful!

I'd also like to thank everyone on this forum! This is such a great space for expressing concerns and finding support!

 

[Tom]

Thank you @Tom. Are there any obvious symptoms of kidney damage? I guess what I am really looking for is at what point can I feel like I am, "out of the woods?" Any advice is helpful!

I'd also like to thank everyone on this forum! This is such a great space for expressing concerns and finding support!

The biggest indicator that things are fine is growth. When the tortoise starts steadily gaining weight, you can rest assured that he will be ok. But don't worry just yet. Some of them take a little while in their new home to start growing.

If you don't have regular Mazuri, I'd get some. Give him a soaked pellet every other day or so, mixed in with his greens.