Soft Undershell?

[abclements]

Hey everybody,

My 6 month old Spartacus seems to have a soft undershell. The top shell is just fine. It's not playdoughy or anything it just seems really flexible when I touch it. I've read places that this is normal up to 9ish months but I want to run it past everybody first.

He's living indoors for the most part now due to weather, but he has a UVB bulb and has good temp readings (95 basking, 75 ambient). He's on a diet of planted weeds (all sorts of different kinds, and a christmas cactus for snacking), I spritz the weeds every other day with a liquid calcium spray from ZooMed and he really seems to like to soak himself in the little pond I've made him.

Anyways, do you guys have any thoughts on what could be causing the soft undershell?

 

[wellington]

Is it soft feeling or does it go in a little when you press on it? some give is normal, to much of a give or mushing isn't. Bump

 

[abclements]

It goes in a little when I press on it. I don't know exactly what "too much of a give" is though. It's definitely not mushing. When I release pressure it goes right back to normal.

 

[wellington]

It's so hard to tell without seeing it in person. It sounds normal to me, but lets wait for more experienced with actual soft shells to come in.

 

[CourtneyAndCarl]

Sounds just like Carl.... I had a bit of a panic attack a few months ago because it felt like Carl's shell was growing soft but he is behaving, eating, etc. normally. I even took him to the vet and they said it wasn't a big deal. Usually having the soft shell is sort of the "last sign" of a major illness. If he has been behaving normally try not to sweat it... Although if you are anything like me you will anyways

---

Here are the links from my many freak out moments that got some responses from people who were helpful about settling my nerves... (kind of)

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-eeek-Another-emergency#axzz27LGxzhAP
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-soft-shell-sign-of-MBD#axzz27LJ20TFY
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Vet-visit--52016#axzz27LJ20TFY

 

[Laurie]

Sounds just like Carl.... I had a bit of a panic attack a few months ago because it felt like Carl's shell was growing soft but he is behaving, eating, etc. normally. I even took him to the vet and they said it wasn't a big deal. Usually having the soft shell is sort of the "last sign" of a major illness. If he has been behaving normally try not to sweat it... Although if you are anything like me you will anyways

---

Here are the links from my many freak out moments that got some responses from people who were helpful about settling my nerves... (kind of)

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-eeek-Another-emergency#axzz27LGxzhAP
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-soft-shell-sign-of-MBD#axzz27LJ20TFY
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Vet-visit--52016#axzz27LJ20TFY

---

I remember this

 

[CourtneyAndCarl]

Sounds just like Carl.... I had a bit of a panic attack a few months ago because it felt like Carl's shell was growing soft but he is behaving, eating, etc. normally. I even took him to the vet and they said it wasn't a big deal. Usually having the soft shell is sort of the "last sign" of a major illness. If he has been behaving normally try not to sweat it... Although if you are anything like me you will anyways

---

Here are the links from my many freak out moments that got some responses from people who were helpful about settling my nerves... (kind of)

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-eeek-Another-emergency#axzz27LGxzhAP
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-soft-shell-sign-of-MBD#axzz27LJ20TFY
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Vet-visit--52016#axzz27LJ20TFY

---

I remember this

---

Not my strongest moment...... eheheh.... :shy:

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Probably normal, but let me suggest that you feed him chopped cactus pads at least twice a week (lots of calcium in those) and get him outside for sunlight anytime it's 68F or over...even a couple hours each week will do him a lot of good.

More, of course, is even better, obviously.

 

[abclements]

Thanks for the advice! I'm getting him outside as much as possible, it has been warmer here the last couple days. He got to stay outside for 4 or 5 hrs today. Hopefully that helps. We have 2 Hermanns (same age) and the other is definitely eating quite a bit more, has a hard shell and seems to have a lot more energy. At this point I'm really starting to get a little worried about it... (It's weird though cuz the healthy one now was the one we were really worried about at the beginning) Should I call a vet at this point? There aren't any that are close to me according to the website at the bottom, the closest one is about an hour and a half drive and he has "Limited Knowledge"... The next closest is about a 5 hr drive... Would it just be best to call at this point? Or should I give it a little more time?

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

I'd give it a little more time, as long as it's eating well, and getting sun...

 

[abclements]

Well he's no longer eating... and not really moving much either... I've sent an email to the place we got him from (reptmart.com) and told them everything I've told you guys, so they want some pics of him and they're going to have their specialist take a look at them and see what he thinks... But basically they told me that this sometimes happens and it is pretty much irreversible... He's a fighter though, so hopefully we can get this turned around and get him healthy again. Thanks for all of your support, I just wanted to get you guys an update...

 

[Laurie]

Sorry to hear he's not any better. I would suggest doing some baby food soaks, just mix some baby food (carrots,squash,pumpkin) in warm water and let him soak in there for about 20 minutes. They can absorb some nutrients through the cloaca, he may even drink. You can keep him warm while doing this by putting a light over him. Also, any natural sunlight can be helpful. Good luck

 

[CourtneyAndCarl]

I would agree, baby food soaks, lots! When I went to buy baby food, I just looked at the jars for the one with the most calcium in it that was only veggie products. The smell is really irresistable, even when the tort isn't feeling well, so he may even drink some! Also, lots of sunlight. If you do end up taking him to the vet, just remember: no vitamin shots.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

In addition to baby food soaks, you might offer him some purre'ed cactus pad, mixed with finely shredded carrots...red foods get tortoises excited, and cactus has a lot of calcium.

Good luck to both of you.

 

[abclements]

So I did the baby food soaks, and he dunked his head and blew bubbles for a while. I'm assuming this was him drinking?? Also my roommate found a way to "force feed" him. This may sound a little bad but it's the only way I have found that he will eat, so a little tough love is needed. I have to flip him on his back, he'll open his mouth and I'll put a little bit of grass/cactus pad/dandelion in his mouth and he'll eat it. After he eats 1 bite, I flip him back over so he's normal again and he'll eat a couple more bites then quit. So I repeat the process until he has eaten the entire pad/leaf.

Anyways, what do you guys think I should feed him? Should I just stick to my Christmas Cactus/dandelion feedings? Or is there something else I should feed him? Something I should buy at the store? Any ideas would be awesome!

Thanks again everybody!

 

[CourtneyAndCarl]

Flipping him over on his back like that is going to stress him out way too much. Ive heard of torts dying just from panicking after being stuck on their back, I would't risk that. Eating shouldn't be your biggest worry right now because they can go for weeks without eating. There are better ways to force feed, too.

Anyways, I'd suggest trying to get some opuntia pads and feeding him those. Try a variety of foods and there may be one that tastes so good he just can't resist it even if he isn't feeling well. Keep up with the baby food soaks, try to add in some soluble bird vitamins if you can, and keep him outside for as long as you possibly can, too.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

So I did the baby food soaks, and he dunked his head and blew bubbles for a while. I'm assuming this was him drinking?? Also my roommate found a way to "force feed" him. This may sound a little bad but it's the only way I have found that he will eat, so a little tough love is needed. I have to flip him on his back, he'll open his mouth and I'll put a little bit of grass/cactus pad/dandelion in his mouth and he'll eat it. After he eats 1 bite, I flip him back over so he's normal again and he'll eat a couple more bites then quit. So I repeat the process until he has eaten the entire pad/leaf.

Whatever gets him/her fed...

Anyways, what do you guys think I should feed him? Should I just stick to my Christmas Cactus/dandelion feedings? Or is there something else I should feed him? Something I should buy at the store? Any ideas would be awesome!

Thanks again everybody!

Try to work in a little more variety...in addition to the cactus and dandelions, offer him/her some dark greens (turnip/collard/mustard/beet), spring mix, that sort of thing...is there a salad bar nearby? If so, go there about once a week and get a little of every green thing you see, chop it intp little bits, mix well and offer your pet that mixture...

And try red things, like chopped red bell pepper, shredded carrot slivers, red lettuce, that sort of thing...the color red makes tortoises hungry, oddly enough.

Might get some Marion Red Stick tortoise kibble...my torts go crazy over it, so I soak some until it's mushy and mix other greens into it...during the winter, you can even mix dried greens into it, btw. Mine get it 2-3X a week.

Coastal, a member here, sells it very reasonably. http://coastalsilkworms.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=458
2#s ships for free and will last your little pet for quite a while (and it freezes well for storage).

 

[Masin]

I'd also seriously worry about him aspirating/inhaling his food...which will cause pneumonia. So let's not do the back flipping force feeding.

 

[abclements]

Well guys, I've got some bad news I woke up this morning to find him too weak to eat but he opened his eyes and was looking around and was trying to eat but just couldn't, (This is the first time he's actually wanted to eat in a week or so) he even moved around for a while. So I gave him another baby food bath, which it seemed to look like he ate a little bit. I called some vets, set up an appointment for him for this afternoon. They wanted to see him ASAP but I got home from class a couple minutes ago to find that he was gone I called the vet again to let them know and they asked a whole bunch of questions and told me that it probably was a Hatchling Failure Syndrome and there was really nothing I could do for him from the start

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Well guys, I've got some bad news I woke up this morning to find him too weak to eat but he opened his eyes and was looking around and was trying to eat but just couldn't, (This is the first time he's actually wanted to eat in a week or so) he even moved around for a while. So I gave him another baby food bath, which it seemed to look like he ate a little bit. I called some vets, set up an appointment for him for this afternoon. They wanted to see him ASAP but I got home from class a couple minutes ago to find that he was gone I called the vet again to let them know and they asked a whole bunch of questions and told me that it probably was a Hatchling Failure Syndrome and there was really nothing I could do for him from the start

Condolenses...HFS is tragic.