some questions about my hermann

[Orpexo]

Hi,

I m a new member, who received an young hermann a few days ago, as described in my presentation thread, where you can see the tortoise and its enclosure.

I have a few questions:
- one thing kinda worries me. My turtle doesnt sleep under the dead leafs, nor under the little hideout I made for her. She prefers to sleep near the warming light. Does that mean she is cold? Lights are on from 9h00 to 19h00 only.
I put thermometers at each corners of the enclosure. During the day the temperature on the cold side is 24°. On the warm side it is 28° degrees (in the shade, just under the light it is probably 30 or 32°)
During the night both side are between 20 and 24°.
Isn't the tortoise supposed to sleep on the cold side of the enclosure or at least dig and hide in a corner? how do your hermann's sleep?

- Should I let the turtle eat as much as it wants or should I limit the quantity of food, a bit like what one would do for a dog not to become too fat?

- Another worry, very often the tortoise rubs her eyes with its front legs. At first I tough it was because some mudd was going in her eyes (she was very dirty at that time). Looking closer I seen a very tiny red insect running on its head! I beleive it was a spider mite. nothing to worry about?

- the pet shop painted a very ugly number on the shell of my tortoise. Is there a way to remove it without hurting the turtle or can I only wait for it to go away by itself?

 

[Paige Lewis]

Welcome to the forum and what a beautiful Hermanns you have! I have one that was hatched in 2009 to.

1. Your temps sound fine to me i definitely would not say she is too cold. I usually find my tort sleeping more on the warm end than the cool end, does she have a humid hide on the warm end? The tort shouldn't necessarily sleep on the cool end, just move around different areas to regulate its body temp.

2. There are different opinions on this but i personally try to give him the amount of food so that he gains between 2g and 3g a month which is usually around enough food to cover his shell although it will vary depending on how active the tort is.

3. What is the humidity like, i used to keep my tort too dry and i found him rubbing his eyes a lot but now i have upped the humidity he no longer rubs his eyes. Could the substrate possibly be dusty?

4. I am not sure about whether there is a way of getting a number off the shell, mine had one as well and i just kept bathing him everyday and 9 months on it is now totally gone.

 

[Orpexo]

thx
I made a sleeping place for the tortoise on the warm side since she decided to sleep there. She went to sleep there right now.

humidity is 80% according to the hygrometer placed at the center of the habitat. But the substrate does dries up under the warming light. I ll check it out. Her eyes seem perfectly normal, so I probably worry too much.

 

[Isa]

Hello and Welcome
Can I ask you what is your substrate (I am not sure of what it is in the pic)?
What kind of light do you use? Maybe the temps under the spot could be a little hotter like 34C but except that, you temps are very good
I feed my Hermanns in the morning and I leave the food there because I know they are going to take a snack in the afternoon. If I see their food dish empty, I will add a couple of pieces of green. I want them to have food available at all time (IMO of course ).

---

I forgot to tell you... Your little one is really cute

 

[tortoisenerd]

1. That is great she likes the new hide! My tort has a hay pile that is in the 80s F he loves to spend most of this time in. He personally hates any type of box or container hide and likes timothy hay and fake plants. Over time you will learn what your tort likes and you can adjust things accordingly. Agree that day & night temps sound good although you can bump it up a little like to 34 C like Isa said (or even to 36 C--hatchlings like it hot). Make sure you use an accurate thermometer like a temp gun and measure at the substrate level. It will be a bit hotter at the torts mid section than at the substrate. I check the temps every day or two and adjust the bulb up or down if needed. Even if your house is on a thermostat, with humidity changes (like when you add water to the substrate and mix it up after its been a bit dry) the temp can change.

2. I think especially for a hatchling you can offer as much food as they want. I put food out before I leave for work in the morning and on a typical day there is maybe 10% of it left, so I know he got enough to eat. Some days he may not eat (torts can get in a funk), so on those days I'll place him in front of his food. More than one day and I'd worry something is up. Some days they are hungrier than normal too. Some people even feed a hatchling twice a day, but I think that is a bit overkill as hatchlings aren't awake that many hours. The most important thing as far as portion size goes is to offer a big enclosure for them to exercise. Once the tort has stopped growing, you can decide on a good portion size to maintain weight (at this point you may need to cut back a bit from the as much as they want portion size if the tort is pudgy). I think its fine for a hatchling to get a bit pudgy. Mine has done so between the growth spurts.

3. Are you sure its a mite? Mites are very very small. Sometimes substrates come with bugs. Where did you get the dirt? If its just from your yard, make sure you haven't had any chemicals put in it. You can even bake it in the oven to kill off any bugs. On your other thread some good suggestions for improved substrate were made. If you see the mite/s again, I would take your tort to the vet for treatment. Changing the substrate can help as that will clean out any mites in there, but if its mites, mites will probably still remain on the tortoise. If its some other type of bug, just changing out the substrate is likely sufficient. You would also need to wipe down the surface after taking out the substrate. Soap or even bleach is fine as long as you can get it washed off and no fumes are left (take the tort out of the room and place it in a plastic tub--I like to have a tub on hand for cleaning and vet trips). I'd post what they suggest to use here first to get opinions on it because some vets sadly aren't up to date on tort treatment so we'd want to make sure its appropriate. Getting a fecal test done while you are there is good to check for parasites. Here's an article on tort mites: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=17+1831&aid=2433

4. The number is likely done in white out and will fade over time. I wouldn't do anything to clean it off. In cases where the entire shell is covered in paint it is necessary to get it off even if it requires using chemicals since the shell is living and can't be painted over and have a healthy tort, but that number isn't too huge. Yeah its annoying, but the breeders do that to differentiate between the torts (sexes, hatch dates, etc).

 

[Orpexo]

Thx for the replies

I never used the pellets so far, i always preferred fresh greens. About the food I have a question, here is a picture of one plant growing in quantities near my place. The flowers are identical to dandelion but smaller, the leaves seem different. Can I give it to my tortoise?
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/9972/13092010671.jpg

@isa
The substrate is simply garden dirt. Ill probably start growing plants there if I decide to keep this substrate
There are two lights, one is a fluorescent tube 5% uvb, I think the name on the box was iguana light. The second is a basking bulb 60 w. it was written on the box 32°C.

@tortoisenerd
1- Before I made this habitat, the tortoise was in a box with a layer of dirt and in a corner some dead leafs. Koopa was always diging under the leafs in the corner to sleep hidden.
When I made the habitat I put leafs in a corner so she can do the same, but she nerver did. She always goes on the warm side and tries to be surrounded by rocks as closely as possible. So when I said I made a new sleeping place for her, I actually just arranged the stones to make a place just of her size so she can come sit in between, and added a few dead leafs. She sleeps there now while she still has the leafs and the tunnel hide on the cool side of the habitat.
I only have two mercury thermometers, one at each side of the habitat right now, aren't they accurate? I ll check if the temp gun is not too expensive.

2- the tortoise is one year old now (born in 2009, probably august but I m not sure) Here's a tipical day: I give food in the morning, the tortoise would wake up slowly around 9h00 and eat, then it would run around and climb stones a lot (it really seems she chooses the hardest paths on purpose). I m quite happy with that, i believe the exercise is good for her. Then at 11 or 12 it goes back to sleep for one hour. Then goes out again and roams around more. At some point early afternoon generally all the food is gone so I give more. She eats again. roams around more. sometimes she'd take a second 1h nap in the afternoon, sometimes not. she goes to sleep for the night at around 18h00 while the sun is still up and lights on. When I come back from work I remove the leftovers from the food and change the water (placed in a tea saucer right now, I ll change that when i can).

3- It was really tiny indeed, and red. thats all I know it was too small to recognize what it was. I never seen it again, but i ll keep checking. I don't think it was the kind of mite that would suck blood, it was more the kind of tiny red spider mite you see on rocks when it's warm and sunny. I'm 100% sure the dirt was not treated chemically for over 3 years, I choose the spot for that reason. It comes from a coworker garden. The dirt did came with a few ants and one spider, but I haven't seen anything alive in there since two days (except for koopa of course). One dandelion seed started to grow from under the water saucer. I'm waiting to see when koopa will decide to eat it.
I m not too sure about cleaning the dirt. I ll continue with it for a month to see how it works. The dirt is fine IMO except the pet gets a bit dirty and wipes its eyes regularly. I choosed dirt iafter reading about it on a french forum. The guys there have quite an environmental thinking, and they would advice nothing else but the most natural dirt for a substrate (That is for a sick tortoise kept inside, since an healthy hermann has to stay out all year even in the north of the country or in the mountains). Also they make 3 months old babies hibernate outside under the snow. I m not experienced enough to do such things ) But I do plan to make koopa hibernate this winter in my basement, I read a lot about it to do it the right way. While the winters are cold here, the tortoise could be outside half of the year. I hope I can give koopa a garden before it becomes adult. So she ll end up with dirt and insects sooner or later
If dirt really becomes a problem in her current habitat I'll find something cleaner following the advices I received here.

4- Yeap, I ll let it be. In my country breeders have to identify all tortoises with this kind of numbers (by law). But they could have made a smaller mark

 

[Tracy Gould]

Thx for the replies

I never used the pellets so far, i always preferred fresh greens. About the food I have a question, here is a picture of one plant growing in quantities near my place. The flowers are identical to dandelion but smaller, the leaves seem different. Can I give it to my tortoise?
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/9972/13092010671.jpg

@isa
The substrate is simply garden dirt. Ill probably start growing plants there if I decide to keep this substrate
There are two lights, one is a fluorescent tube 5% uvb, I think the name on the box was iguana light. The second is a basking bulb 60 w. it was written on the box 32°C.

@tortoisenerd
1- Before I made this habitat, the tortoise was in a box with a layer of dirt and in a corner some dead leafs. Koopa was always diging under the leafs in the corner to sleep hidden.
When I made the habitat I put leafs in a corner so she can do the same, but she nerver did. She always goes on the warm side and tries to be surrounded by rocks as closely as possible. So when I said I made a new sleeping place for her, I actually just arranged the stones to make a place just of her size so she can come sit in between, and added a few dead leafs. She sleeps there now while she still has the leafs and the tunnel hide on the cool side of the habitat.
I only have two mercury thermometers, one at each side of the habitat right now, aren't they accurate? I ll check if the temp gun is not too expensive.

2- the tortoise is one year old now (born in 2009, probably august but I m not sure) Here's a tipical day: I give food in the morning, the tortoise would wake up slowly around 9h00 and eat, then it would run around and climb stones a lot (it really seems she chooses the hardest paths on purpose). I m quite happy with that, i believe the exercise is good for her. Then at 11 or 12 it goes back to sleep for one hour. Then goes out again and roams around more. At some point early afternoon generally all the food is gone so I give more. She eats again. roams around more. sometimes she'd take a second 1h nap in the afternoon, sometimes not. she goes to sleep for the night at around 18h00 while the sun is still up and lights on. When I come back from work I remove the leftovers from the food and change the water (placed in a tea saucer right now, I ll change that when i can).

3- It was really tiny indeed, and red. thats all I know it was too small to recognize what it was. I never seen it again, but i ll keep checking. I don't think it was the kind of mite that would suck blood, it was more the kind of tiny red spider mite you see on rocks when it's warm and sunny. I'm 100% sure the dirt was not treated chemically for over 3 years, I choose the spot for that reason. It comes from a coworker garden. The dirt did came with a few ants and one spider, but I haven't seen anything alive in there since two days (except for koopa of course). One dandelion seed started to grow from under the water saucer. I'm waiting to see when koopa will decide to eat it.
I m not too sure about cleaning the dirt. I ll continue with it for a month to see how it works. The dirt is fine IMO except the pet gets a bit dirty and wipes its eyes regularly. I choosed dirt iafter reading about it on a french forum. The guys there have quite an environmental thinking, and they would advice nothing else but the most natural dirt for a substrate (That is for a sick tortoise kept inside, since an healthy hermann has to stay out all year even in the north of the country or in the mountains). Also they make 3 months old babies hibernate outside under the snow. I m not experienced enough to do such things ) But I do plan to make koopa hibernate this winter in my basement, I read a lot about it to do it the right way. While the winters are cold here, the tortoise could be outside half of the year. I hope I can give koopa a garden before it becomes adult. So she ll end up with dirt and insects sooner or later
If dirt really becomes a problem in her current habitat I'll find something cleaner following the advices I received here.

4- Yeap, I ll let it be. In my country breeders have to identify all tortoises with this kind of numbers (by law). But they could have made a smaller mark

The plant is groundsel is a really bad plant that is know to kill horses and cattle so do not feed to your tortoise.

Here is a link to a good site it will tell you plants that are good and bad for your tortoise.

http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/site/plants_19.asp?catID=144

 

[Orpexo]

thx! good site

 

[Orpexo]

I started to plant consumables in the habitat. it will probably not last too long ^^

warm side

cool side

I'm waiting the result for the parasites.

 

[Tracy Gould]

I started to plant consumables in the habitat. it will probably not last too long ^^

warm side

cool side

I'm waiting the result for the parasites.

nice area. yep thy are walking hoovers so they will not last long lol. I played crafty and planted mine in pots so she has to work to get at them lol

 

[Orpexo]

Results from the lab just arrived/.
Unfortunatly it only states "many pinworms eggs". without specifying the quantity... I probably should have been more precise when i requested the copro.

I first phoned the vet, one which is supposed to know reptiles, who told me he was not checking poop himself but giving it to a lab, then gave me the phone number of the lab. So I phoned the lab, the person on the phone was not sure they could do it for a tortoise, they are more used to dogs, cats, 'common' pets. In the end they accepted.

the tortoise weights only 25 grams. I guess i ll phone the vet again.

 

[Isa]

Sorry about that
Did he prescribe antibiotic?
Maybe you should start a new thread in the Hermann section to be sure that everyone sees it.
Did you call the vet again?

 

[Orpexo]

I have appointment with the vet tomorow morning.

most tortoises living outside have a few pinworms (I am no specialist but that's what I read). The pinworms will become a problem only if they are too many. In natura the tortoise find ways to limit their numbers, eating slighty toxic plants for exemple. A captive tortoise stays at a single place and is in permanent contact with the parasite eggs.

I read a story on another forum about a guy having 1 adult female thh. At spring he bought a second thh of same age, but a male. As soon as they were put together the male spend most of its time breeding. 2 months later the male becomes inactive. the owner posted pictures on a tortoise forum for advices, one of the experienced guy sees a tiny worm on the tortoise plastron. The tortoise is sent to the vet asap, unfortunatly it died while it was being treated. Generally when you can see worms in the feces without instruments the situation is allready very bad. The male had spent all its energy between the stress of being at a new place and breeding, which diminished its natural resitence against parasites, the worms infested him. The female was also treated and never fell sick.

Not willing to experience anything like this myself, I took appointment to the vet. I hope he ll tell me an indoor tortoise will be better with no pinworm at all and give me a panacur treatment. I am a bit worried because even if his secretary told me he knew reptiles well, i m not sure he knows tortoises well.

Another thing I have to think about is how to clean the eggs which went in my substrate. I was wondering if I could put my substrate to the microwave?

 

[Isa]

If I were you I would just change it.
Good luck and please keep us updated

 

[Orpexo]

If i change it the new dirt from outside may contain eggs as well. Damn mother nature.
I ll have to keep koopa on an unatural and easy to clean environment for at least two weeks I beleive. Still after that I'd like to keep the dirt/soil mix with plants growing. But how to sterelize dirt?

the tortoise is healthy and active so hopefully it will not die overnight. I hope the treatment wont have too much side effects :/

 

[Isa]

O shoot, I did not think of that!
Hmm I do not know, I heard of someone putting the dirt in the oven but I am sure it would be very messy lol
I am glad that your little one is still active, it is a good start

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

I have appointment with the vet tomorow morning.

most tortoises living outside have a few pinworms (I am no specialist but that's what I read). The pinworms will become a problem only if they are too many. In natura the tortoise find ways to limit their numbers, eating slighty toxic plants for exemple. A captive tortoise stays at a single place and is in permanent contact with the parasite eggs.

I read a story on another forum about a guy having 1 adult female thh. At spring he bought a second thh of same age, but a male. As soon as they were put together the male spend most of its time breeding. 2 months later the male becomes inactive. the owner posted pictures on a tortoise forum for advices, one of the experienced guy sees a tiny worm on the tortoise plastron. The tortoise is sent to the vet asap, unfortunatly it died while it was being treated. Generally when you can see worms in the feces without instruments the situation is allready very bad. The male had spent all its energy between the stress of being at a new place and breeding, which diminished its natural resitence against parasites, the worms infested him. The female was also treated and never fell sick.

Not willing to experience anything like this myself, I took appointment to the vet. I hope he ll tell me an indoor tortoise will be better with no pinworm at all and give me a panacur treatment. I am a bit worried because even if his secretary told me he knew reptiles well, i m not sure he knows tortoises well.

Another thing I have to think about is how to clean the eggs which went in my substrate. I was wondering if I could put my substrate to the microwave?

Beter yet, put substrata in a metal pan and bake it in your oven for about an hour @ 300F