[split] Comparison of my Babcock/SA's tails

diamondbp

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(Note from Yvonne: I split off this post and the next few after it so as to not de-rail the 2010 SA leopard thread)


Yvonne thanks for the update. I hope others 2010 pp owners chime in as well.

I agree 100% that your larger pardalis is female. I'm not convinced that the smaller is male. I'm surprised that the sex isn't more apparent that it is at their size and age. IF I HAD TO GUESS I would actually guess two females.

Have you witnessed any sexual behaviors at all from either one? I would think if the smaller was a male than he would have surely attempted to mount those beautiful females you have (I'm Jealous)
 

Yvonne G

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RE: 2010 South African Leopard Thread.

Not between these two, however, the last dorsal scute on the bigger one, just above the tail is polished nice and shiny, so I'm thinking my Babcock male has discovered another female in his yard. I'm in the process right now of separating the enclosure and shed so I can have male/female. I don't want the SA to have to lay eggs yet. She's not big enough.
 

diamondbp

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RE: 2010 South African Leopard Thread.

Yvonne G said:
Not between these two, however, the last dorsal scute on the bigger one, just above the tail is polished nice and shiny, so I'm thinking my Babcock male has discovered another female in his yard. I'm in the process right now of separating the enclosure and shed so I can have male/female. I don't want the SA to have to lay eggs yet. She's not big enough.

I would do the same.

How different is your babcocki plastron/tail area from the smaller of your pardalis? I'd be curious to see how different they are considering their similar size. I wonder if babcocki males show their male characteristics at a younger age than the pardalis males?
 

Yvonne G

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RE: 2010 South African Leopard Thread.

He's five and has bred the bigger females, one of whom has laid fertile eggs. It's dark now, but tomorrow I'll compare his plastron shot with a plastron shot of the smaller SA.
 

diamondbp

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RE: 2010 South African Leopard Thread.

Yvonne G said:
He's five and has bred the bigger females, one of whom has laid fertile eggs. It's dark now, but tomorrow I'll compare his plastron shot with a plastron shot of the smaller SA.

any luck with the comparison?
 

Yvonne G

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RE: [split] Comparison of my Babcock/SA

Sorry, until you reminded me, I completely forgot. I've been busy re-doing that yard so I can separate males from females.

Here's a shot of the plastrons with the SA on the left. The tip of the SA's tail before the femoral/anal scute seam, while the tip of the Babcock's tail is past that seam:

01-11-14a_zpsab782cf9.jpg


Sorry they're so dirty. They live outside. Here's a closer view:

01-11-14b_zpscd6b3b71.jpg
 

diamondbp

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thats a confusing one! lol. The rear scutes look so different from one another, but the tails are similar. The rear carpace shield curves downward much more on the babcocki male than the unknown pardalis. So there are some very notable differences, but not enough for me to be sure of the sex.
Perhaps Tom or other pardalis owners could chime in with their opinions. I'm still unsure.
 

Tom

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The pb is older and more mature. The pp is male, but still has a ways to go. Those anal scutes will spread and that tail will continue growing.

Yvonne, are you not seeing any "male" type behavior? My males have been mounting and asserting themselves for over a year now. When he does finally "wake up" just know that they behave very much like male sulcatas, if not worse. At least all of mine do, and so did some of their parents. Just letting you know, so you can have a plan "B" ready. Looks like we need to find you at least one more female. I have 3 or 4 females coming in and I'm working on another two also. I'll see about loaning you one eventually when the time comes.
 

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Well, I worked all day yesterday on the pen separation, and I'm not even half way finished. Today I'll figure out a way to jury rig a temporary separation. How did I luck out in getting a 1.1...I guess I must be living right!

No, I really don't see ANY behavior at all. If I want to see my pretty rocks move, I have to sneak up on them and don't let them see me. Then all I see is grazing and walking.
 

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Yvonne G said:
Well, I worked all day yesterday on the pen separation, and I'm not even half way finished. Today I'll figure out a way to jury rig a temporary separation. How did I luck out in getting a 1.1...I guess I must be living right!

No, I really don't see ANY behavior at all. If I want to see my pretty rocks move, I have to sneak up on them and don't let them see me. Then all I see is grazing and walking.

Interesting... I wonder what the difference is. I don't handle, cuddle, talk to or interact with mine any more than you do. Most days I just set the food down, clean out the waters and walk away. They get and occasional soak and rinsing, but that's about it for handling. When I go in their enclosure I'll have at least two or three of the males biting at my shoes or pushing on my feet.
 

diamondbp

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Perhaps it's because you have multiple young males that creates an atmosphere of competition and Yvonne's pardalis male only has a slightly bigger passive babcocki male around so it's a more placid environment ?
Just a possibility.
 

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