Stressed New Owner and Sick baby

[LittlefootsDad]

Hello Everyone, I have learned a lot from reading posts on here, but am still having some difficulties with Littlefoot. Hes is about 2.5 months old as of now, I have had him a month. I keep him in a 20 gal tank, lined with eco carpet. He has two hideout houses, one on the cool side, one on the warm side. He has a large shallow water bowl that he does use. I was keeping his tank between 86-92 roughly. Im in cali so the days have been warm to hot so there is some fluctuation in the tank. until last week i was letting the tank cool to about 70 overnight. He was getting once weekly 15 min soaks. He was and still is eating a diet of dark leafy green, grated carrot. His lighting consisted of a reptile uva and a 60 wat bulb for heat. The problem started just over a week ago i think when I ran out of spring mix and gave him spinach for about 2-3 days until i got some more, he really seemed to like it but at the 2nd/3rd day he slowed drastically. Little interest in food and sleeping a lot. after research on here and elsewhere i discovered spinach is a nono. I immediately got him spring mix, repto-cal calcium and D3, as well as a UVb reptile bulb and replaced the norm light bulb for a uva 40 wattage which is keeping his home warm during the day. He is getting about 13 hours of light. At night i keep the tank at about 86 with the use of a heating pad until my next pay period of which i'll get a new hood with room for a night heat bulb. The tank floor does not get hot, but warm.
I am sprinkling his food daily with the repto cal. and i have upped his warm water soakings to daily, usually twice for 10 min, he always poops in the water as soon as he gets in, and generally eats as soon as he gets out. right after he eats he usaully goes to sleep for a few hrs. Sometimes falling right asleep in his plate of food..It makes me worry that he is so tired. I have hear his tanks too hot, and i have heard it is too cool...Tomorrow im going to buy him some cactus. I would appreciate any info at all. A vet really is not an option...sorry to say. His shell BTW is basically firm, i have kept water turtles, and when they were his age their shells still had a tiny amount of give, his does but i honestly think its because he is still young. It is not soft, but not rock hard either. thanks for any advice!
danny

 

[katesgoey]

Hi Danny,

I don't keep sulcatas, but I have Leopard tortoises which are similar. I'm sorry you are having problems with Littlefoot and I'm sorry a vet is not option. Babies are very difficult. They do sleep alot though so he may just need to sleep. Does he have any periods of activity? As you know, it's hard to tell unless one is there to actually see what's going on. Until someone more experienced responds, I wanted to suggest that you try getting him out of the tank if it is glass because it seems more difficult to control temps and he needs a variance in temperatures (a cooler side and a warmer side all at the same time so he can choose). Do you have some humidity going on somewhere for him? It sounds like you've done a good job adjusting his environment based on what you've learned here. If you have UVB, he may not need so much of the D3 with the calcium and/or as much calcium daily (unless you are just giving him the slightest pinch). How are you measuring the temp? Sometimes certain gauges are not dependable. These are just a few thoughts until someone else jumps in so hang in there

 

[chadk]

What is 'eco carpet'?

He should be on a substrate that holds humidity. It can dry a little on the surface, but should hold moisture if the tort digs down just a little. The expanding coco fiber bricks most pet stores sell is good. Mixed with a little play sand and it's even better. Cypress bedding from the petstore is OK to. Not the big chunky chips. A little tort needs to have good traction... Another option is organic garden soil. Mix that with a little peat moss, coir, and\or play sand and it will be even better. 3 or 4 inches should be fine, but 5 or 6 would be even better.

I agree about the tank. A plastic bin would be better. Something nice and long so you can offer a distinct warm end and a cool end. Offer hides at both ends. Food and water dish in the middle.

Also, now that you have UVB (what type is it?), you won't want the Calc with D3. Go really easy on it if you use it. Don't want to OD on it.

A little spinach won't hurt. Just really try to ffer a wide variety of foods on the recommended list. You are going for high fiber. Cut back on the carrots. Avoid fruits and most veggies. Stick with leafy greens, dandilion greens, grasses, weeds, etc.

A night drop to 70ish should be fine. I'd skip the heat pad.

Try to get the enclosure to have a nice 80ish degree ambient temp (air temp in the middle). The warm end should have the basking light that gives the tort a basking area in the mid 90s. The cool end can be in the mid 70s to low 80s. Again, hides on each end would be good. And moist substrate - check often.

Daily soaks are good for the little one. They can dehydrate quickly. That heat pad and heat lights at night can really dehydrate them quickly too. That is why I don't recommend any heat at night unless your temps get below about 68 consistently. And also why the humid hide on the warm side is so important.

Best of luck!

 

[Crazy1]

Hi Danny welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear your little Sully was under the weather. But if he is eating now and pooping that is a good thing. Spinach is high in oxalic acid and can cause kidney or blader stones. But if he is passing poo and urine that is good. It takes some tweaking to get things right for a baby. Don't panic take it slow and just change things one at a time if need be. I agree with Sandy, careful with the calcium and especially with the D3 while he is under an ultra violet bulb. They can OD on D3 fairly easily. I might try orchid bark (has fir but it has been heated so no oils or toxins are given off) or cypress mulch for a substrate. Tortoise carpet keeps your enclosure dry. But with the bark or mulch always use hardwood mulches as softwood is usually pine or fir and can be dangerous even deadly to you tort. You can dampen it and keep the humidity up while the top layer dries out. You'll want about 70% humidity for a baby. Look through Sulcata Central and Enclosures on the forum for more ideas. A plastic tub or tortoise table is a much better choice, but a tank can be used for now. It is much harder to set up microclimates and temps in a tank especially a small tank like a 20 gal. Glass tends to hold in the heat and not circulate air well. If at all possible try not to use a heat pad. Babies can't sense the amount of heat they give off and often get burned. (Though I know you said it was warm not hot).

Sounds like the spinach didn't agree with your little one. He may have ended up with a tummy ache. Sounds as if he is eating OK now, Yes? Remember cactus can cause runny stools if given too much so just a bit every couple of days. Babies sleep a lot. Mine often fall asleep in their food. Sometimes they potty there too. Here is a great site for Sulcatas http://www.africantortoise.com/
Temps:
75ish on the cool side with a bright basking area in the low 90'sis about as close to ideal as you can probably get. Be sure to verify the temps with thermometers on both sides at tort level. As in nature, tortoises require an overnight drop in temps to maintain a healthy immune system. I wouldn’t let them get cooler then 65. Sick or newly acquired animals like yours may be best kept in the 80's overnight to aid in their immune response and combat the stress of adjusting to a new home or changes in his home.

Also with that spring mix you can add curly endive, Escarole, wheat grass tips, any dandelion leaves or flowers that have not been sprayed with chemicals or chemical fertilizers. If you buy plants please give them at least 3 months to get all the chemicals out of them before you feed them to your hatchling. And flowers from a flower shop is not a good choice as they spray these heavily. Hope that helps some. I’m sure more members will respond. Good luck and keep us updated please.

 

[LittlefootsDad]

Hello Everyone, thank you for the help! More suggestions are welcome tho! Today I picked up the orchid bark spread it throughout his tank , roughly 2 inches deep. On his hot side, i sloped it a little bit so that he could one burrow in, or just decide to be closer to heat source if desired. I got a better thermometer and this one is currently reading at 96/98 degrees on the warm side of the enclosure. I also got a hygrometer which is at a 40% level reading as of right now so I guess I will continue misting until I get in the 70% level as suggested by Crazy1 [Thank you!] Before I was trying to keep his tank on the drier side due to some misinformation, so when i added the orchid bark today I misted it.
I will probably use the repto cal powder very sparingly after hearing the bulb will give him what he needs. maybe once a week, and only a dusting?

As for his food I am sticking with spring mix and today he got some cactus and loved it. Where do you all get all these other grasses etc? I am going to try Trader Joes tomorrow, and see what I can find in the way of edible flowers etc. I do have a bag of dried timothey hay and dried marigolds that the pet store suggested as a substrate/food. The straw he cannot bite through, and he nibbles at the flowers if i moisten them. What about kitty grass that they sell at petsmart? Any use in trying this? I have some of the Grassland Tortoise Zoomed food that he only accidently eats if i sprinkle over lettuce..THANKS AGAIN, im going to be addicted to this web site im sure! I have way better hopes for Littlefoot!
You get addicted SO fast!
Danny

 

[katesgoey]

Hi Danny,

You can find seeds for growing your own tortoise grazing grasses/weeds at several sites, I use www.carolinapetsupply.com. I use a kitty litter pan and an old seed tray to grow mine. I also use planter boxes to plant various plants in organic topsoil and "wait out" the chemical bleed. You can also take cuttings from yards, etc., but often pesticides have been used so be careful about that. Try cutting up the Timothy Hay in bite size pieces - but young torts often don't eat the hay so don't worry about that right now. Keep introducing it in small amounts as he ages and develops a taste for it. As far as the Grassland food goes, I don't think many of us use that because of the other ingredients. You can get the wheatgrass at Petsmart and take cuttings from it. Hope that helps you

 

[Crazy1]

Danny, you should be able to get the wheatgrass as trader Joes as well as frizee in season all my torts love it. just cut the tops off the wheatgrass if you mist his greens it should stick fine. Also http://www.carolinapetsupply.com has not only seeds but they sell a great salad that would work well for your Sully. It is dryed grasses and flowers and can be used a little every other feeding or so and dampened if needed, oh and it is already cut up.

 

[LittlefootsDad]

Hey everyone, thanks for the help, Littlefoot is doing sooo much better, I think the lack of humidity was really the causing factor. I am having trouble maintaining the humidity though. My hygrometer on average is reading about 55. I gave the orchid bark a good soak and the first day i learned of the needed humidity and within an hour or two it read at 70 no prob. i can still see humidity under the first layer of bark so it is moist, but the hygrometer, which is about 2'' above the ground level is reading about 50, except at night when i cover his tank to keep him warm [im trying to keep his tank no cooler till upper 70's just until im 100% sure he is out of the woods, it does go back up to almost 70. Last night it got to 80, so i left uncovered. Anyhow, Im supposing i just have to mist it several times a day? I just dont want too much moisture..thanks!