Substrate changing?

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lovelyrosepetal

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Hi everyone. I have a question about substrate. How often are you supposed to change your bedding? I use cypress mulch as a bottom layer and then I put coconut coir on top of the cypress. I try to keep it really humid but i noticed these tiny little bug things crawling in the coir? I can't imagine this is normal and want to know how often I need to change the substrate. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Rose:tort:
 

ascott

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The little buggies are not uncommon...they are likely springtails...if you keep your substrate moist you can likely add some earthworms to the mix as well and let them do their thing and the soil can become a living area, just as it would outdoors.....the buggies seem to creep us humans out but do not appear to bother the tort ----remember, they would be out in the earth if they were wild....:D

I spot clean the substrate for the indoor enclosures as well as every so often I will turn the soil and then compact it again....spot cleaning goes along way...
 

lovelyrosepetal

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That is good to know. I would not have thought that these springtails would be normal but makes sense about the tortoises in the wild. I have been spot cleaning daily, but how often should I change the substrate completely? Thanks for the soil turning tip. :) Rose
 

wellington

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I only use coir. I change mine twice a year. I don't know about the Cypress though. If that should be changed more often. Also, you can bake the coir before you use it and it should kill off any of the bugs or bug eggs if you don't like having them. My torts indoor enclosure is a closet/room. There is no separate floor from my living room floor. I can't have the bugs as they could get through my whole house, ick.
 

ascott

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Well, I have had two redfoot torts here (not the baby ones :D) that have been here since september of last year and I only changed their substrate out a few months ago when I was setting up new enclosure for the two babies and I bought waaaaaay to much substrate...I had an entire bag of finely processed peat moss...so went ahead and changed theirs out after setting up the new babies crib....so that would have been a complete change out at what about 6 or 7 months?

However, their substrate was not icky and was not in need of changing I just did it because I had a huge bag sitting in my house of the peat moss that I wanted to make go away....lol....as a matter of fact when I dumped the old substrate at the back of the property I was kinda sad when I noticed all the great bugs and worms that got dumped out too...I did grab a couple earthworms and put em in with the new substrate for good measure---either they have dug in nicely into the new stuff or they were a yummy score for the redfoot torts...lol...:p

They did not have any smell or foul odors at even the 6-7 month mark..so I do not have an exact amount of time to give you---before the redfoots became part of the household I did not house any torts indoors... (years ago I had some indoors while bringing them back to health and they went onto new homes) and the redfoots here will eventually be outdoors 24.7 when they are a bit bigger in size (well, except during the cold months :D).

Perhaps one of the more scientific members here can give you a better feel...but I am a person that goes with what feels right to me, soooooo---I would say, if you are spot cleaning and picking up all left over food material and your torts enclosure is still good (not stinky or foul looking/odors) then you would not need to change it out at any set time frame.....but as I said, other folks do things their own way and I have seen some folks here even do monthly substrate change outs--this is not my practice but I have seen some folks get icked out if they don't....lol :cool:
 

lovelyrosepetal

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Thanks for all the good advice :)! I really appreciate it. I won't worry about it too much then until I make them a new enclosure, which I hear will be sooner rather than later, unless it gets smelly:)! Thanks again!
 

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I change mine out "as needed". With spot cleaning and spending lots of time in their outside enclosures, this often translates to "never". I've had some going for years and never changed it.
 

poison

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TortoiseBoy1999 said:
You should change once a month, and I read put it in the oven to get the bugs out.

what bugs are you talking about? if you are talking about mites then there is no need to bake it. mites need reptiles to live and there are no reptiles in the bag of dirt lol.
 

ascott

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If you bake your new substrate then the springtails and the other few harmless critters will not be there....

If you place your tortoise outdoors during nice days/weather...and during that time they touch the earth they come into contact with springtails and the other few harmless critters you just baked out of your soil...

So when you transport your tort back to their indoor enclosure you have hitchhikers on your tort that then multiply in the indoor enclosure....ooops....;)

So, if you research a bit you can add a few helpful insects to your indoor enclosure that thrive on eating springtails and other harmless critters to keep their populations at proper levels....you can research on this to better acquire a feel for what I am referring to...:)
 

lovelyrosepetal

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Thanks for the info. all of you. I take mine out everyday so I guess there is no way to get rid of the bugs. Also, I don't know what bugs they are. They are really small and white. It is hard to see them unless you are studying the substrate. There are quite a few of them but maybe I can get some worms or something that will get rid of them. :) I appreciate all of your help. :)

I just looked it up and the bugs are not mites but are springtails. I will probably get some worms to eat the springtails and then change the substrate when I make their new enclosure. Thanks again!:)
 

poison

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lovelyrosepetal said:
Thanks for the info. all of you. I take mine out everyday so I guess there is no way to get rid of the bugs. Also, I don't know what bugs they are. They are really small and white. It is hard to see them unless you are studying the substrate. There are quite a few of them but maybe I can get some worms or something that will get rid of them. :) I appreciate all of your help. :)

I just looked it up and the bugs are not mites but are springtails. I will probably get some worms to eat the springtails and then change the substrate when I make their new enclosure. Thanks again!:)



they are more then likely spring tail or wood mites both harmless and helpful:D
 

TortoiseBoy1999

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poison said:
what bugs are you talking about? if you are talking about mites then there is no need to bake it. mites need reptiles to live and there are no reptiles in the bag of dirt lol.

I meant nat's
 

poison

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i wouldnt worry about nats there a flying insect and harmless
 

lovelyrosepetal

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I have yet to see gnats but from images I saw online I believe they are springtails. I put a few eartworms in there and am hoping it will cut down on the problem. If not, I guess it is normal and won't hurt them.

I meant earthworms:)
 

GeoTerraTestudo

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Tom said:
I change mine out "as needed". With spot cleaning and spending lots of time in their outside enclosures, this often translates to "never". I've had some going for years and never changed it.

That's what I do. I have 100% coco coir, and I spot-clean food, pee, and poop daily. If I miss some, tiny insects may gather around it, but once I throw it away, the insects either leave or die off. I've had the same substrate for over a year now.

A note about earthworms. Earthworms needs soil. They may survive for a while in moist coco coir, but they need proper soil to survive because they eat it (earthworm castings are just nutrient-rich waste soil that came out the other end). Earthworms may be able to help reduce pests by eating fungi, depriving insects of this resource, and preventing their proliferation. Personally, I don't want anything in my indoor tortoise pens except my tortoises, which is why I just use coco coir. :)
 

lovelyrosepetal

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I didn't realize that about earthworms. I guess I will take out the earthworms and hope that everything else is fine. Thanks!:)
 

GeoTerraTestudo

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I offered my Russian tortoises a few earthworms left over from a fishing trip, to see if they would eat them. They didn't, and the earthworms escaped into the coco coir. I didn't see the worms for days, so I had assumed the tortoises had eaten them, but they didn't, and I found the worms one after another hiding out under the water dish (where the coir is more moist, due to spillage). They were alive and okay, but they seemed rather slow (even for a worm), probably because they hadn't eaten anything in over a week, since they need soil and the microbes in it for food. I released them outside, and they burrowed into the soil soon thereafter.
 

GeoTerraTestudo

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poison said:
a tortoise can eat earth worms?

Box turtles love all sorts of invertebrates, including worms. Redfoots eat invertebrates, too, and some people have reported that their redfoot tortoise will eat worms, although mine never did. Other forest tortoises (like hingebacks and Indotestudo species) might go for them, I don't know.

As for grassland and desert tortoises, they may go for snails and slugs, but I wouldn't really expect them to like worms. Like I said, I had some leftover bait, so I thought I'd see if my Russians wanted them as a treat. Not surprisingly, they were not interested. :tort:
 
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