Sudan Sulcatas (This never gets old...)

[Mystic_Queen (Llaria)]

Theses babies are so beautiful. And the information you give is just wow.
there umbilical cord scars heal so fast unless you see them pics you truly wouldn’t believe it.
can I fly over and adopt one of them beauty’s ?. Q
Sudan sulcatas are are just ??. But so is every tort breed.
congrats on your beautiful bunch can’t wait to see more pics as they grow before they go to there new homes

 

[EllieMay]

All but 4 are out of their eggs now. Only one isn't going to hatch. 23/24 for her first clutch isn't bad. I'm pretty happy with that. The one egg had never showed any development when candled previously, so that wasn't a surprise. The first 8 from yesterday are in the upper tub in this photo:
View attachment 302308

Here are some Yolk sac photos on day 2 to compare to yesterday's photos:
View attachment 302309
View attachment 302310
View attachment 302311

It happens fast if they are soaked daily and kept in the correct environment. Here is the next tid bit of info: Once they all hatch, I soak them together and I sort them into their tubs by the size and condition of their yolk sacs. I put like with like. See how the one in the last picture above is much farther along? I'll put him and 5 siblings that are in similar shape in a box, and I'll put the other ones with more sac still showing together in their own brooder box.

Omg.... I see two with beautiful aberrant scutes! I would love to have Sudans... ( you must tell me no!) I already have 3 yards, each with a male in it... and none are yet full grown... this is how it all goes bad! They really are beautiful babies... I love reading your info!

 

[tortlvr]

I frequently complain that "most people don't start babies correctly". I figure this is a good opportunity to expand on that and explain more.

Here are the first babies to hatch enjoying their first soak:
View attachment 302197

Here is the routine: I get the shoe box with the hatching babies out of the incubator and bring it to the sink. I get the water warm and turn it down to a trickle. I pick up each baby that has exited its egg and examine it's yolk sac. If the yolk sac is reasonably small, which it usually is if they were out of their egg, then I rinse them in the warm trickling tap water to get the schmutz and vermiculite off of them, and then I put them into a pre-filled warm soaking tub. I then put the lid back on the shoebox and put the rest of the eggs back into the incubator. Next I turn on the bird brooder, set the temp, and prepare their brooder boxes. Normally I limit it to 6 babies to a box, but I make an exception to 8 on day one. Tomorrow these guys will be divided up in to smaller groups of no more than six. If you don't have a bird brooder, this step can be done in the incubator, but I like the bird brooder because it gets them started on a day/night cycle with the lights, while the incubator is just always dark inside.

I used to use paper towels on the bottom of the brooder boxes, and if I don't have anything else, I still will on day one or two only. I prefer to use grape leaves, broadleaf plantain leaves, or large mulberry leaves. I alternate through these three. I also add in different grasses, weeds, leaves, baby opuntia pads, flowers, and grocery store greens for them to nibble on. In these first few days, I try to introduce them to new foods every day for at least two weeks before repeating anything. This makes for babies that will literally eat anything you put in front of them, which is why I'm always bitching at people to NOT let their tortoises have access to anything toxic with the incorrect assumption that the tortoises know better and won't eat the wrong stuff. My babies will, but I do this so they will eat a huge variety of the right stuff for their new owners.

I also leave some of their egg shells in with them for a few days. They don't seem to do anything with them, but I want them to have the option.
View attachment 302201

My bird brooder box has a fan that runs 24/7. I place the tub of water directly under the fan to keep humidity up and reduce the wind on my shoe boxes. As long as I have room, I keep the rain water spray bottle in there to keep the water in it warm. I can fit up to nine shoe boxes in the brooder at once.
View attachment 302202

Every day, I remove the old leaves and food, and soak them for 15-20 minutes in their brooder boxes. While they soak, I go outside and get fresh leaves and food for their new boxes. When they've soaked enough, I spray them off with my rain water and put them into their freshly made up clean boxes with a wet shell. Then they go back into the bird brooder for another day. This goes on for anywhere from 7 -10 days. Why 7-10 days? I'm glad you asked. This is about how long it takes for them to absorb their yolk sac and have the umbilical scar close up and heal. I do not think babies should be in an enclosure and on substrate until the yolk sac is absorbed and the umbilical scar completely closed up. I see many breeders making this mistake.

Here is what these babies looked like today. I'll do a daily progression on them to show how quickly it absorbs and heals up if people would just keep them in a brooder box instead of in a dry enclosure on substrate.
View attachment 302210View attachment 302211View attachment 302212

Comments and questions are welcome.

What do you do if the yolk sac is injured?

 

[Viola B]

So many beautiful babies! Amazing! Thank you for sharing all the pictures and information.

 

[Tom]

What do you do if the yolk sac is injured?

Don't injure it. Make sure is isn't injured in the first place. In most cases, that is a death sentence.

All you can do is try to keep the baby on damp perp towels and change them every few hours to reduce the build up of bacteria and any other pathogens.

 

[Tom]

Omg.... I see two with beautiful aberrant scutes! I would love to have Sudans... ( you must tell me no!) I already have 3 yards, each with a male in it... and none are yet full grown... this is how it all goes bad! They really are beautiful babies... I love reading your info!

You have come to the WRONG place if you are looking for anyone to tell you NOT to get another tortoise! We are a bunch of enablers and co-addicts here!

 

[Chefdenoel10]

My very first clutch of true 100% pure Sudan sulcatas is now hatching. I don't care how many times I see this, it just never gets old. I dig up the eggs carefully place them in my prepared shoe boxes, watch the temperature in the incubator and tend to them for months, and then...
View attachment 302098

When that first pip comes, I swear I'm more excited than I was when I was a little boy on Christmas morning. After all those years of raising the parents from hatchlings, soaking, feeding, watering, cleaning, building night boxes, tending to their enclosures, locking them up every night and letting them out every morning, and then months of watching the eggs and wondering what your gonna get... When they finally hatch it is just the most amazing thing ever. Little mini versions of their parents. Walking around and ready to join the world. I recall the fun and pure joy I had raising the parents of these babies and knowing that their new owners will experience that same joy and happiness and it brings a smile to my face every time I think about it. These babies will be ready for their new homes in about a month.

For any one who doesn't know what the difference between a Sudan sulcata and a "regular" sulcata is: Sudan males get literally twice the size of regular males, and have a much higher dome. Females of both are similar in size, but Sudan females also tend to have the higher domes. Care, diet, housing and every thing else is the same. Send me a PM if you are interested.

i love the fact that you are so excited!!!
I wanna see a picture of your “smiling” happiness!!!????
Congrats!!!
You did a GREAT job “Dad”.
Enjoy them while they are young because that’s when everything about them is FUN!!
?

 

[Linda Fry]

I love your split scute babies! What temperature do you incubate at and what temperature is your Bird Brooder Box?

 

[Tom]

I love your split scute babies! What temperature do you incubate at and what temperature is your Bird Brooder Box?

I incubate at 87-88 specifically to avoid the split scutes. Its rare for me to get them. I used to incubate at 89-90 to get more females, but I lowered it a bit so I would not get split scutes at all.

The Brinsea bird brooder box is kept at about 88-89.

 

[Nickff15]

My very first clutch of true 100% pure Sudan sulcatas is now hatching. I don't care how many times I see this, it just never gets old. I dig up the eggs carefully place them in my prepared shoe boxes, watch the temperature in the incubator and tend to them for months, and then...
View attachment 302098

When that first pip comes, I swear I'm more excited than I was when I was a little boy on Christmas morning. After all those years of raising the parents from hatchlings, soaking, feeding, watering, cleaning, building night boxes, tending to their enclosures, locking them up every night and letting them out every morning, and then months of watching the eggs and wondering what your gonna get... When they finally hatch it is just the most amazing thing ever. Little mini versions of their parents. Walking around and ready to join the world. I recall the fun and pure joy I had raising the parents of these babies and knowing that their new owners will experience that same joy and happiness and it brings a smile to my face every time I think about it. These babies will be ready for their new homes in about a month.

For any one who doesn't know what the difference between a Sudan sulcata and a "regular" sulcata is: Sudan males get literally twice the size of regular males, and have a much higher dome. Females of both are similar in size, but Sudan females also tend to have the higher domes. Care, diet, housing and every thing else is the same. Send me a PM if you are interested.

Will you be selling any? If so send me an email. [email protected]
Also do you have anymore pictures of the parents?

 

[Tom]

Will you be selling any? If so send me an email. [email protected]
Also do you have anymore pictures of the parents?

Yes. I'll be selling all of them.
Here is an older pic of the parents. I've got to get fresh pics.



Dad:



Mom:

 

[BrookeB]

Its your lucky day. I seldom get split scutes, but one of the remaining four from yesterday that hadn't left their egg yet turned out to be number split scute number 3.
View attachment 302388

Right now they are separated into brooding boxes according to when they hatched and the state of their umbilical scar. In a few days I will put them all together and get you a pic of your three all together.

Omg omg yay!!!!! Lmao your a tortoise wizard I asked for 3 with split scutes and LOOK at that???? I could throw you a party!!! Ohhh they are all so pretty. Can you tell I’m excited lol.

 

[BrookeB]

So I have a question about soaking the tortoises. I saw something interesting on Facebook and I’m unsure if using it would harm the tortoises in any way, as I haven’t seen this used by any of you experts. While soaking the hatchling the owner of the three hatchings put a washcloth on the bottom of the soaking tub. She showed a before video (Without washcloth) and an after video (with washcloth). In the before video you could see the normal reaction most hatchling have (running around/climbing walls not wanting anything to do with bath time etc. in the second video with the washcloth the tortoises (all 3 hatchlings) where sitting and relaxing, they would walk slowly and they where even drinking way more. Honestly it seemed like they enjoyed their soak a lot more with a washcloth floor. Is this a good idea or is there some issues that I’m not seeing in using this method? When I get some of your tortoises I don’t want to do anything wrong. Lol

 

[Oxalis]

Here is an older pic of the parents. I've got to get fresh pics.
View attachment 302447


Dad:
View attachment 302445


Mom:
View attachment 302446

Nothing warms the heart like baby photos! Mom and Dad look absolutely beautiful too. ? I'm amazed that the yolk sac is absorbed SO quickly with the added hydration, but I'm not surprised since your methods are near perfection. Great job!! ⭐

 

[phengx83]

My very first clutch of true 100% pure Sudan sulcatas is now hatching. I don't care how many times I see this, it just never gets old. I dig up the eggs carefully place them in my prepared shoe boxes, watch the temperature in the incubator and tend to them for months, and then...
View attachment 302098

When that first pip comes, I swear I'm more excited than I was when I was a little boy on Christmas morning. After all those years of raising the parents from hatchlings, soaking, feeding, watering, cleaning, building night boxes, tending to their enclosures, locking them up every night and letting them out every morning, and then months of watching the eggs and wondering what your gonna get... When they finally hatch it is just the most amazing thing ever. Little mini versions of their parents. Walking around and ready to join the world. I recall the fun and pure joy I had raising the parents of these babies and knowing that their new owners will experience that same joy and happiness and it brings a smile to my face every time I think about it. These babies will be ready for their new homes in about a month.

For any one who doesn't know what the difference between a Sudan sulcata and a "regular" sulcata is: Sudan males get literally twice the size of regular males, and have a much higher dome. Females of both are similar in size, but Sudan females also tend to have the higher domes. Care, diet, housing and every thing else is the same. Send me a PM if you are interested.

 

[phengx83]

WOW! Congrats! They look awesome. I have never known about them.

 

[Nickff15]

I frequently complain that "most people don't start babies correctly". I figure this is a good opportunity to expand on that and explain more.

Here are the first babies to hatch enjoying their first soak:
View attachment 302197

Here is the routine: I get the shoe box with the hatching babies out of the incubator and bring it to the sink. I get the water warm and turn it down to a trickle. I pick up each baby that has exited its egg and examine it's yolk sac. If the yolk sac is reasonably small, which it usually is if they were out of their egg, then I rinse them in the warm trickling tap water to get the schmutz and vermiculite off of them, and then I put them into a pre-filled warm soaking tub. I then put the lid back on the shoebox and put the rest of the eggs back into the incubator. Next I turn on the bird brooder, set the temp, and prepare their brooder boxes. Normally I limit it to 6 babies to a box, but I make an exception to 8 on day one. Tomorrow these guys will be divided up in to smaller groups of no more than six. If you don't have a bird brooder, this step can be done in the incubator, but I like the bird brooder because it gets them started on a day/night cycle with the lights, while the incubator is just always dark inside.

I used to use paper towels on the bottom of the brooder boxes, and if I don't have anything else, I still will on day one or two only. I prefer to use grape leaves, broadleaf plantain leaves, or large mulberry leaves. I alternate through these three. I also add in different grasses, weeds, leaves, baby opuntia pads, flowers, and grocery store greens for them to nibble on. In these first few days, I try to introduce them to new foods every day for at least two weeks before repeating anything. This makes for babies that will literally eat anything you put in front of them, which is why I'm always bitching at people to NOT let their tortoises have access to anything toxic with the incorrect assumption that the tortoises know better and won't eat the wrong stuff. My babies will, but I do this so they will eat a huge variety of the right stuff for their new owners.

I also leave some of their egg shells in with them for a few days. They don't seem to do anything with them, but I want them to have the option.
View attachment 302201

My bird brooder box has a fan that runs 24/7. I place the tub of water directly under the fan to keep humidity up and reduce the wind on my shoe boxes. As long as I have room, I keep the rain water spray bottle in there to keep the water in it warm. I can fit up to nine shoe boxes in the brooder at once.
View attachment 302202

Every day, I remove the old leaves and food, and soak them for 15-20 minutes in their brooder boxes. While they soak, I go outside and get fresh leaves and food for their new boxes. When they've soaked enough, I spray them off with my rain water and put them into their freshly made up clean boxes with a wet shell. Then they go back into the bird brooder for another day. This goes on for anywhere from 7 -10 days. Why 7-10 days? I'm glad you asked. This is about how long it takes for them to absorb their yolk sac and have the umbilical scar close up and heal. I do not think babies should be in an enclosure and on substrate until the yolk sac is absorbed and the umbilical scar completely closed up. I see many breeders making this mistake.

Here is what these babies looked like today. I'll do a daily progression on them to show how quickly it absorbs and heals up if people would just keep them in a brooder box instead of in a dry enclosure on substrate.
View attachment 302210View attachment 302211View attachment 302212

Comments and questions are welcome.

They look great ?

 

[Nickff15]

Yes. I'll be selling all of them.
Here is an older pic of the parents. I've got to get fresh pics.
View attachment 302447


Dad:
View attachment 302445


Mom:
View attachment 302446

They look perfect ? and no pyramiding. Great job!
I'll have to get their diet plan one day.

 

[BrookeB]

Last couple questions!!

what age do you usually starts selling the babies, how long am I going to have to wait lol.. is it at a certain size like @Gijoux or is it at a certain age? I’ve seen babies at their new homes with their umbilical not even fully scarred up yet. And to me that doesn’t seem right.

And with this method have you ever had issues with hatchling failure syndrome? I know what it is and I have read all of the information on it on here (even your personal explanation Tom) because of my past babies but I was wondering if you still get a small percentage that has it Still or if it’s actually completely fixed with the way you care for them.

(I hope I’m not asking to much on this thread I definitely don’t want to steal any of your attention because these little guys and you deserve praise.)

 

[Tom]

Last couple questions!!

what age do you usually starts selling the babies, how long am I going to have to wait lol.. is it at a certain size like @Gijoux or is it at a certain age? I’ve seen babies at their new homes with their umbilical not even fully scarred up yet. And to me that doesn’t seem right.

And with this method have you ever had issues with hatchling failure syndrome? I know what it is and I have read all of the information on it on here (even your personal explanation Tom) because of my past babies but I was wondering if you still get a small percentage that has it Still or if it’s actually completely fixed with the way you care for them.

(I hope I’m not asking to much on this thread I definitely don’t want to steal any of your attention because these little guys and you deserve praise.)

I like to wait 4-6 weeks to make sure they are eating well and growing. As seen in this thread, the umbilical scar will be all closed up and healed before they set foot in an enclosure.

Zero "Breeder Failure Syndrome" with these methods. The organ damage caused by chronic dehydration simply doesn't happen with daily soaks and a warm humid enclosure.