Sulcata baby nose bubbles

[zeus6626]

Hey guys ,

I have observed some bubbles on my baby Sulcata’s nose last night , I found some bubbles being formed in the morning after soak , just now in the evening I have captured this photos please take a look .

For context : the substrate is oak wood bark , the temps are basking :115 , warm side : 95 , cool side (near hide) : 87 , I am feeding him mulberry leaves , hibiscus leaves and bunch of weeds from garden .

Please help , I am from India , there is no vet here who has knowledge around tortoises .

 

[Tom]

Hey guys ,

I have observed some bubbles on my baby Sulcata’s nose last night , I found some bubbles being formed in the morning after soak , just now in the evening I have captured this photos please take a look .

For context : the substrate is oak wood bark , the temps are basking :115 , warm side : 95 , cool side (near hide) : 87 , I am feeding him mulberry leaves , hibiscus leaves and bunch of weeds from garden .

Please help , I am from India , there is no vet here who has knowledge around tortoises .

-Basking area directly under the bulb should only be 95-100F (36-37C). You need to raise the bulb or lower the wattage. The other temps are on the high side, but okay.
-How cool does the enclosure get at night when the lights are all off?
-What substrate are you using?
-What type of enclosure? Closed chamber or open table?
-What type of light bulbs? UV? What type of UV bulb?

Pictures of the enclosure will help us identify and correct the problem.

 

[zeus6626]

-Basking area directly under the bulb should only be 95-100F (36-37C). You need to raise the bulb or lower the wattage. The other temps are on the high side, but okay.
-How cool does the enclosure get at night when the lights are all off?
-What substrate are you using?
-What type of enclosure? Closed chamber or open table?
-What type of light bulbs? UV? What type of UV bulb?

Pictures of the enclosure will help us identify and correct the problem.

Hey Tom ,

At night the least it gets to is 23C (73.4) least I am talking about at like 2-3 am midnight.

I am using orchid bark

It is fully closed

I give him like 1 hr daily sun time.

 

[Tom]

At night the least it gets to is 23C (73.4) least I am talking about at like 2-3 am midnight.

There is your problem. Night temp should never drop below 80. Get some night heat set on a thermostat. Keep it above 85 at night for at least two weeks after symptoms disappear.

Here is a breakdown of the four heating and lighting essentials:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

 

[wellington]

There is your problem. Night temp should never drop below 80. Get some night heat set on a thermostat. Keep it above 85 at night for at least two weeks after symptoms disappear.

Here is a breakdown of the four heating and lighting essentials:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

Tom, the substrate is oak wood bark. Should oak be used? Not the cause of the bubble problems I'm sure, but is oak safe?

 

[zeus6626]

Tom, the substrate is oak wood bark. Should oak be used? Not the cause of the bubble problems I'm sure, but is oak safe?

Hey ,

My bad I have typed wrong one , it is actually orchid bark what Tom suggests. I just checked my order confirmation mail , from where I got through the chips from

 

[zeus6626]

Tom, the substrate is oak wood bark. Should oak be used? Not the cause of the bubble problems I'm sure, but is oak safe?

Got it , for ceramic heating

Loading…

amzn.in

Will this work @Tom

 

[wellington]

Got it , for ceramic heating

Loading…

amzn.in

Will this work @Tom

Okay good, orchid bark.
Yes, the ceramic heat emitter is what is used for night heat or added needed day heat.

 

[zeus6626]

Okay good, orchid bark.
Yes, the ceramic heat emitter is what is used for night heat or added needed day heat.

Thank you .

So the bubbling stops by itself of should I be concerned about it ?

 

[wellington]

Thank you .

So the bubbling stops by itself of should I be concerned about it ?

With the correct temps and not cold, they should stop on its own. Just keep an eye on it. But the correct temps usually fixed it quickly.

 

[zeus6626]

With the correct temps and not cold, they should stop on its own. Just keep an eye on it. But the correct temps usually fixed it quickly.

Got it! I must be recieving the ceramic heater by tomorrow , and I’ll update here if there is any thank you so much .

Last question : I am spraying water in the enclosure 2 times a day to maintain humidity , that is ok right . The humidity is around 80% always

 

[wellington]

If it's a closed chamber which it should be, then you would dampen the substrate maybe once a week. Spraying will only keep the humidity up while the substrate top layer is damp which won't be very long under the lights.
The enclosure looks too small. Should be around a 2x4 or 2x3 feet closed chamber for now. Then as he grows add more room until he can live outside at around 10 inches.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hello and welcome! You’ve been given lots of good advice here!

I’m going to include some information below on how I’d personally tackle an indoor starter set up for this guy until they’re bigger. Hopefully it helps give you some ideas because it’s looking like a size upgrade is needed

Basking light should be an incandescent floodlight(example attached) on a 12 hour timer.

Basking temperature directly under the floodlight should be 95-100f. The rest of the enclosure should be ranging 80-85, not dropping lower than 80 at night all over. Whilst the bubbles are there, keep night temp around 85.

You may also wish to add ambient lighting on the same timer as the basking light, providing shady areas with hides and such.

If the floodlight isn’t enough to bump up the over enclosure temperature, you could add a CHE(ceramic heat emitter)or two depending on the size you go for, they’re a non light emitting heat bulb that people use to help make heat up/night heat. Again if it’s dropping below the 80’s at night, a CHE is a good idea. Always run any ceramic bulbs on a thermostat, you’ll set the thermostat for around 80, plug the ceramic(s) into the thermostat and plug the thermostat into the mains, it’ll be on 24/7, but the thermostat will only turn on the ceramic(s) if the temperature drops below 80, and will keep them off if the temperature is fine.

Large wide dome fittings do help in projecting the heat down, just make sure to never solely rely on the clamp fittings that can come with them, they can fail, so it’s always best to hang them securely

Any indoor Uv should be a t5 fluorescent tube, avoid the compact and coil uv bulbs, they don’t give out enough uv and can hurt the tortoises eyes. The uv can be on a 4 hour timer from noon. I’ve attached the brands to go for, the Arcadia proT5 kit 12% comes with the reflector fitting, the reptisun needs it buying separately.

With lighting always avoid anything labelled halogen or mercury vapour.

For substrates, either coco coir, dampened and packed down by hand as a base, with a layer of orchid(fir not pine) bark or forest floor on top, or just the orchid bark/forest floor. Never use anything with sand mixed in, no top soils and no kinds of moss. The trouble with top soil is you don’t know what kind of plants have gone into it, they could be toxic. Sand and moss are impaction risks.

You want to aim to have the bottom layer of substrate damp, to do this pour lukewarm water into the corners, not loads but enough to dampen the entire bottom layer. To stop that top layer getting too dry/dusty, mix the substrate now n then, which also helps boosting humidity or give the top a spray. Check your monitors and substrate to do the pours as and when needed. I don’t recommend misters or foggers, they get the air too wet and cause respiratory problems.

Humidity for young growing tortoises benefits when maintained around 80%, 24/7, you’ll find that difficult to achieve with an open top and the wooden box you’re using will unfortunately begging to rot, for the set up I’m recommending I’d get a greenhouse cover.

To maintain humidity whilst the tortoise is younger a greenhouse style set up works well and provides more space, the bigger you go the better, it’s ideal if you can build your own base to go as big as you can for the room you have for now.

If you can’t find an exact fit for your base with the cover, then place it over like the one with the white base in the photo, I’d put lining down under the base and cover though to stop condensate getting on your floor. Bear in mind the ones pictured I don’t think are personally big enough to house this tortoise, they’re just to give you an idea.

When making your base, just make sure the material is safe, some use flower beds or just make their own, for both these options I’d line with cheap pond liner to protect the base, making sure the liner goes up the sides too and make sure those sides are deep enough to prevent escapes.

Some people even hang their lighting from the greenhouse frame!(if sturdy enough) Simply wrap the wire round so it’s at the height you need(check with temp gun/put thermostat in, 18-21 inches for uv I recommend) then secure with cable ties and chains.

I’ve also included examples of stands people make/buy.

I think for the size you’ll need to go, you may struggle to find a topper, in that case you could maybe throw some pvc covering over the stands if you can’t find one, but again if you do that, I’d put lining down under the base to stop condensate.

For a water dish a shallow terracotta saucer large enough for the tortoise to soak in, is considered safest, they have grip in the event your tortoise flips themselves, most pet store options are a known hazard like the one you’re using.

Ignore whatever else is in these enclosures in the photos, they’re just to give you an idea, and again these particular ones look to small for the species imo to last long, but hopefully they help inspire an idea

I’d also always recommend getting your hands on a temp gun, they’re SO handy when setting up a new environment or for checking your monitors are correct

As this is a closed chamber set up, I’d recommend letting the materials off gas for about a week or until there is no odour

Wishing you all the best from the ukfeel free to ask more questions/ double check new equipment before buying

 

[wellington]

Hello and welcome! You’ve been given lots of good advice here!

I’m going to include some information below on how I’d personally tackle an indoor starter set up for this guy until they’re bigger. Hopefully it helps give you some ideas because it’s looking like a size upgrade is needed

Basking light should be an incandescent floodlight(example attached) on a 12 hour timer.

Basking temperature directly under the floodlight should be 95-100f. The rest of the enclosure should be ranging 80-85, not dropping lower than 80 at night all over. Whilst the bubbles are there, keep night temp around 85.

You may also wish to add ambient lighting on the same timer as the basking light, providing shady areas with hides and such.

If the floodlight isn’t enough to bump up the over enclosure temperature, you could add a CHE(ceramic heat emitter)or two depending on the size you go for, they’re a non light emitting heat bulb that people use to help make heat up/night heat. Again if it’s dropping below the 80’s at night, a CHE is a good idea. Always run any ceramic bulbs on a thermostat, you’ll set the thermostat for around 80, plug the ceramic(s) into the thermostat and plug the thermostat into the mains, it’ll be on 24/7, but the thermostat will only turn on the ceramic(s) if the temperature drops below 80, and will keep them off if the temperature is fine.

Large wide dome fittings do help in projecting the heat down, just make sure to never solely rely on the clamp fittings that can come with them, they can fail, so it’s always best to hang them securely

Any indoor Uv should be a t5 fluorescent tube, avoid the compact and coil uv bulbs, they don’t give out enough uv and can hurt the tortoises eyes. The uv can be on a 4 hour timer from noon. I’ve attached the brands to go for, the Arcadia proT5 kit 12% comes with the reflector fitting, the reptisun needs it buying separately.

With lighting always avoid anything labelled halogen or mercury vapour.

For substrates, either coco coir, dampened and packed down by hand as a base, with a layer of orchid(fir not pine) bark or forest floor on top, or just the orchid bark/forest floor. Never use anything with sand mixed in, no top soils and no kinds of moss. The trouble with top soil is you don’t know what kind of plants have gone into it, they could be toxic. Sand and moss are impaction risks.

You want to aim to have the bottom layer of substrate damp, to do this pour lukewarm water into the corners, not loads but enough to dampen the entire bottom layer. To stop that top layer getting too dry/dusty, mix the substrate now n then, which also helps boosting humidity or give the top a spray. Check your monitors and substrate to do the pours as and when needed. I don’t recommend misters or foggers, they get the air too wet and cause respiratory problems.

Humidity for young growing tortoises benefits when maintained around 80%, 24/7, you’ll find that difficult to achieve with an open top and the wooden box you’re using will unfortunately begging to rot, for the set up I’m recommending I’d get a greenhouse cover.

To maintain humidity whilst the tortoise is younger a greenhouse style set up works well and provides more space, the bigger you go the better, it’s ideal if you can build your own base to go as big as you can for the room you have for now.

If you can’t find an exact fit for your base with the cover, then place it over like the one with the white base in the photo, I’d put lining down under the base and cover though to stop condensate getting on your floor. Bear in mind the ones pictured I don’t think are personally big enough to house this tortoise, they’re just to give you an idea.

When making your base, just make sure the material is safe, some use flower beds or just make their own, for both these options I’d line with cheap pond liner to protect the base, making sure the liner goes up the sides too and make sure those sides are deep enough to prevent escapes.

Some people even hang their lighting from the greenhouse frame!(if sturdy enough) Simply wrap the wire round so it’s at the height you need(check with temp gun/put thermostat in, 18-21 inches for uv I recommend) then secure with cable ties and chains.

I’ve also included examples of stands people make/buy.

I think for the size you’ll need to go, you may struggle to find a topper, in that case you could maybe throw some pvc covering over the stands if you can’t find one, but again if you do that, I’d put lining down under the base to stop condensate.

For a water dish a shallow terracotta saucer large enough for the tortoise to soak in, is considered safest, they have grip in the event your tortoise flips themselves, most pet store options are a known hazard like the one you’re using.

Ignore whatever else is in these enclosures in the photos, they’re just to give you an idea, and again these particular ones look to small for the species imo to last long, but hopefully they help inspire an idea

I’d also always recommend getting your hands on a temp gun, they’re SO handy when setting up a new environment or for checking your monitors are correct

As this is a closed chamber set up, I’d recommend letting the materials off gas for about a week or until there is no odour

Wishing you all the best from the ukfeel free to ask more questions/ double check new equipment before buying

Some of this does not pertain to this poster. I think you should shorten this and make sure it all pertains to the poster you are linking it for.
It's so long and jammed with info all at once and some that doesn't pertain to some of the threads.
A link to the actual care sheets we have from long time members would be better serving a long with
yours shorten to include the pictures.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Some of this does not pertain to this poster. I think you should shorten this and make sure it all pertains to the poster you are linking it for.
It's so long and jammed with info all at once and some that doesn't pertain to some of the threads.
A link to the actual care sheets we have from long time members would be better serving a long with
yours shorten to include the pictures.

My bad, I thought it was all relevant to give an idea of a bigger set up at some point.

I know it looks a lot of infoI tend to try and cover everything for new members who might come across the threads

When I’ve tried to shorten anything, finer details get missed and I have to point it out down the line, meaning sometimes they’ve missed something, like not using clamps for example, which then usually means another purchase they weren’t aware they needed

The care sheets are brilliant, goes without saying, but I have had quite a few people tell me they find them too overwhelming and like my responses, I know they aren’t for everyone though.
Despite them looking lengthy, I think it covers everything in one and I always stick around if things need breaking down, Id never dump it all and leave them to it.

I thought maybe the pics and all my info are good for them to refer back to whenever they need, I understand my approach might not work for some, which is why I like the fact people give different kinds on here.

I’ve had messages from people saying they’ve found my responses helpful.. some probably do indeed find it too much though. I do appreciate your feedback, I can definitely tone it back if you like

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I’m just now noticing I included the wooden bit on accident! That was for another member

 

[Tom]

Tom, the substrate is oak wood bark. Should oak be used? Not the cause of the bubble problems I'm sure, but is oak safe?

You are correct. I missed that one. Good thing the OP mis-typed it, and is not using that. I bet it was spell check. Spell check gets me all the time...

 

[Tom]

Got it! I must be recieving the ceramic heater by tomorrow , and I’ll update here if there is any thank you so much .

Last question : I am spraying water in the enclosure 2 times a day to maintain humidity , that is ok right . The humidity is around 80% always

Keep him warm TONIGHT. You can put the enclosure in a bathroom and run a space heater if needed for a night.

That CHE should work, but its only 50 watts. You might need 100 or 150 watts. Only your thermometer can tell you. You also need a thermostat to run the CHE. You don't want it "on" all night if the temperature is warm enough.

If you are having to spray water twice a day, that tells me that you have too much ventilation. Spraying twice a day causes evaporative cooling. You shouldn't need to spray if using a closed chamber.

 

[TammyJ]

Can you please tell us how you do the soaking routine? Water temperature, depth?

 

[zeus6626]

If it's a closed chamber which it should be, then you would dampen the substrate maybe once a week. Spraying will only keep the humidity up while the substrate top layer is damp which won't be very long under the lights.
The enclosure looks too small. Should be around a 2x4 or 2x3 feet closed chamber for now. Then as he grows add more room until he can live outside at around 10 inches.

Thank you for your advice , I will dampen the substrate, not spray from now on i will put in 1 inch of coco coir and then another 1.5 inch of orchid bark on top , so I can dampen the bottom coco coir whenever needed