Sulcata hatchling question regarding parasite recovery.

Jfletcher1975

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Hello all,

My name is James, and I am a first time tortoise owner, though I do have some experience with taking care of Slider turtles.
I live in Charleston, South Carolina, so weather is nice usually, and they do go outside for real sunlight, heavily supervised.

I have 2 hatchling Sulcatas, 4-6 months old.
Charlie http://i.imgur.com/tRaC4ZR.jpg
Riley http://i.imgur.com/KI0Eo39.jpg

Some info:

I have been weighing them for 3 months and noticed Charlie was not growing any, while his buddy has seen gains every week.
Charlie was bought from a local pet store, Riley was ordered from BackwaterReptiles.com, if that makes any difference.

They have a CHE on at night that keeps it 80 degrees, daytime, 90-95ish under the basking area, on the cold side it's room temp, 70-75, but they don't go there very often.

They eat clovers, alfalfa sprouts, spring mix, and sometimes romaine lettuce daily.

Riley shares the same living quarters, and is up to 80g, slow and steady growth so far, is 2 months younger, I believe.
They do not fight or anything, they sleep right next to each other, eat next to each other, and bask almost side by side, and follow each other around, playing and climbing.

Charlie has been fluctuating between 47-52g since I got him, so we took him and his buddy (Riley)to the vet, and they tested positive for parasites from a poo sample.
The vet has given them both the first 2 treatments, and the last one is on Monday.

My big question is this.

After treatment has finished, will he start to gain weight after x amount of days/weeks?
I ask, because he has still gained nothing after 2 treatments even though he eats like twice a day, has access to a water dish, goes outside weather permitting daily for like 20 min to an hour.

I might just be worrying too much but I just want to make sure these guys have a very long, healthy, and happy life.

Thank you for reading this long post, and for any advice.
 

Yvonne G

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Hi James, and welcome to our Forum!

Just try an experiment for me to see if it works. Separate them. Make a whole other habitat, just like the existing one, and put one tortoise in each habitat. Keep them separated for at least 3 months. I'm betting that the smaller tortoise will start to grow during that time. You don't have to see actual 'bullying' for it to be going on. They communicate by mental telepathy (or by unseen (to us) ways). When you have two of any kind of animal, one is the dominant and one is the more submissive. The more submissive animal tries to stay out of the dominant animal's way and one way to do that is to stay smaller.
 

Tom

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Here are two threads that will likely explain what is going on. After you read them, lets talk about your thoughts on the subject.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/pairs.34837/

This one might shed some light too:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/

Oh what the heck. Might as well get these ones read too:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-76744.html
 

Jfletcher1975

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Hi James, and welcome to our Forum!

Just try an experiment for me to see if it works. Separate them. Make a whole other habitat, just like the existing one, and put one tortoise in each habitat. Keep them separated for at least 3 months. I'm betting that the smaller tortoise will start to grow during that time. You don't have to see actual 'bullying' for it to be going on. They communicate by mental telepathy (or by unseen (to us) ways). When you have two of any kind of animal, one is the dominant and one is the more submissive. The more submissive animal tries to stay out of the dominant animal's way and one way to do that is to stay smaller.

Ok, that does make sense and I was planning on making them a bigger enclosure anyways, guess I can make it a little bigger and split it so they have privacy.
 

Jfletcher1975

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Here are two threads that will likely explain what is going on. After you read them, lets talk about your thoughts on the subject.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/pairs.34837/

This one might shed some light too:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/

Oh what the heck. Might as well get these ones read too:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-76744.html

Ok, reading now, it looks like a large amount of good info.
 

Jfletcher1975

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So far, in regard to the hatchling failure syndrome post, that sounds pretty accurate to how he was probably bred, the pet store had Charlie in a plastic container with 10ish? other little torts all bunched up together. He said it was temporary housing, but they were climbing on top of each other etc.
He said he orders them online from a place that mass breeds them, but it wasn't the same place I got Riley from.
 

Jfletcher1975

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Bah, we got the second one to keep the little guy company, but looks like different living quarters from now on.
I did quite a bit of research before we got Charlie, but I did not look into multiples living together.
 

Jfletcher1975

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Ok, in regard to http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/

I need to make them a better enclosure.

Currently , it's a large cardboard box right beside my desk so I can keep an eye on them 24/7 when they are awake.
The basking temp is usually around 90, 100 seemed like it might cook them, but I will lower the light a bit to get it closer.
Humidity is like 50-80 depending on if they have the water dish in there, and if I mist them, which is done once or twice a day if humidity gets below 50.

They do have a cave that used to be my aquarium that they love to sleep in sometimes, and Riley burrows under the hay I have on one side of the box when s/he sleeps, but charlie just faces a random wall and nods off for the night, and I block off the "cold" side at night just incase.
 

Jfletcher1975

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Beginner mistakes
1. Buying a tortoise from the WRONG source.
Yep, in retrospect.

3. Substrate
I got them orchard grass hay initially for food, but they just ignore it and burrow under it.
I have a plastic lid on top of the bottom of the box for easy cleaning, a dish towel folded so they have a soft place to bask, and hay on the cooler side.

6. Temperatures
I already adjusted the temp to be closer to 100 directly under lamp, the night temp is 80 under the CHE.

8. Place to hide
They have a cave and a log that they go under throughout the day, but I will look into something more appropriate.

9. pairs
Yep, fixing that tonight :(

10. mixed species
Well, we have a very friendly Yellow belly slider a little bigger than them that goes outside and hangs out with them, I put her in the enclosure with the sulcatas for like 30 minutes a few times, and she just sits and basks, or burrows in the hay, but I won't do that anymore.

14. Enclosure size.
Working on that tonight
 

Jfletcher1975

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In regard to the last thread linked.
They eat mazuri pellets after being soaked to soften, 30%, Clovers from outside, weeds, dandelion, honeysuckle 30%, Alfalfa sprouts(Charlie goes berserk over these) like 20%.
Very rarely spring mix, romaine lettuce, and pumpkin puree 20%.

All guesstimates on the %, they eat outside with the clovers etc, and then later mazuri, alfalfa etc.
 
M

Maggie Cummings

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Sounds to me like you are doing well. Yvonne barely beat me to the 'bullying' thing. I have seen it very often in chelonia. Tortoises are solitary animals and they look at other tortoises as competition for the best food, hide or for mating purposes etc. They don't really need company. I would get a better substrate and make humidity. You want 75 or 80% humidity so they do not pyramid. I use fine grade orchid bark. Pour water in it and stir it up. IMG_1520.JPG Whatever substrate you get make sure it doesn't have pine or cedar...HTH
 

Jfletcher1975

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I'll look into the orchard bark, I have them separated by a barrier now, will go to lowes or somewhere tomorrow and look for a large container, or get the parts to build a tortoise table.
 
M

Maggie Cummings

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A lot of tortoise people don't approve of using glass aquariums, but I have raised a whole lot of hatchings in aquariums. I just wrap newspaper around the bottom so they can't see out. That way I can watch them, but they can't see me. I buy used or broken 250 gallon tanks for $20-$40.
I get my orchid bark from my sister who gets it at a hardware store. There isn't any to be found in Oregon. And we are a major lumber state
 
M

Maggie Cummings

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Close. That's the same manufacturer but my sis pays $10 for 1 cubic foot that's 20 lbs. So I'm thinking you don't get much for $12 and still have to pay shipping.
 

Tom

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You should be able to find 2.0 cubic foot bags for about five dollars at any chain hardware store or garden center. Sometimes its called Pathway Bark. Go to Petco or Petsmart and look at the stuff through the bag. Then when you get to the hardware store you know what you are looking for. Make sure you get the fine grade stuff, not the big honkin' chunks.
 

Jfletcher1975

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Ah, nice, we have both of those stores within like 5 miles.
I also have come upon a good sized dresser with no drawers or anything about 5 feet long/high and like 2 feet wide.
I could very easily split it in half and put substrate etc in it.
 

Tom

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Open topped enclosures are very difficult to maintain good growing conditions in. Closed chambers work much better for simulating the African rainy season.
 
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