Sulcata noob is worried about hatchling.

Status
Not open for further replies.

SoulKata

New Member
10 Year Member!
5 Year Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
7
Hello everyone!

I have two sulcata hatchlings. I got the smaller one two days ago online. It is only 2", and cute as heck. But I wonder if the environment I put it in is good enough, particularly the lighting. I have a 150 watt bulb hovering over the 15 gallon tank, about 14" above the bottom of the tank. That's during the day. At nighttime, I have a red 100 watt bulb. The hatchling spends a lot of time in the corner, not moving much. I'm feeding it wheatgrass, but it hasn't touched it. Collard Greens, and Romaine lettuece which it has pecked at. Cactus which it has also pecked at. And small Carrot slices which I'm not sure if it has eaten any. It did jump inside its water bowl and relax there for a few minutes. It's weird that he did that because I soak it daily. I know it should be every other day but I don't want to risk dehydration. My other hatchling has yet to recover from dehydration.

My other sulcata hatchling, Hippie, has been very sick. I took him to the vet, and they gave him some antibiotics and calcium supplements to be taken orally. I haven't been able to find a way to get him to take those. I'm going to get a syringe with a needle, and try to get the needle in its mouth, and maybe that way I can administer the meds.

Anyone have any thoughts, comments, or advice on either of my two sulcatas? Thanks!
 

egyptiandan

New Member
10 Year Member!
5 Year Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Messages
5,788
Location (City and/or State)
USA
Welcome to the forum :)

You should be able to find what you need if you search the forum and check out this website for sulcatas and leopard tortoises. http://africantortoise.com/

Danny
 

Laura

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
5 Year Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
7,502
Location (City and/or State)
Foothills above Sacramento CA
Dont stick a needle in your torts mouth. More damage can be done.
Put Vitasol in his soaking water, he needs to be very warm.
Dont put your new tort in with your current one, and let us know what the temps are in the enclosure.
Babies need a few days to settle.. They can be very hard to deal with.
Try the Baby greens from the store . Spring Mix. Sometimes something with color entices them to eat. Squash, pumpkin, red lettuce, Grated carrot, etc
 

SoulKata

New Member
10 Year Member!
5 Year Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
7
Thank you so much for your replies.

I'am definetly NOT putting these two together. The reason I got the new one was to try an deal with the Vet telling them that the old one might not make it. :(

Spring Mix, huh? I've heard a lot about that just by reading a few posts on these forums. I will go to the store first thing tomorrow.

Thanks again.
 
M

Maggie Cummings

Guest
SoulKata said:
Hello everyone!

I have two sulcata hatchlings. I got the smaller one two days ago online. It is only 2", and cute as heck. But I wonder if the environment I put it in is good enough, particularly the lighting. I have a 150 watt bulb hovering over the 15 gallon tank, about 14" above the bottom of the tank. That's during the day. At nighttime, I have a red 100 watt bulb. The hatchling spends a lot of time in the corner, not moving much. I'm feeding it wheatgrass, but it hasn't touched it. Collard Greens, and Romaine lettuece which it has pecked at. Cactus which it has also pecked at. And small Carrot slices which I'm not sure if it has eaten any. It did jump inside its water bowl and relax there for a few minutes. It's weird that he did that because I soak it daily. I know it should be every other day but I don't want to risk dehydration. My other hatchling has yet to recover from dehydration.

My other sulcata hatchling, Hippie, has been very sick. I took him to the vet, and they gave him some antibiotics and calcium supplements to be taken orally. I haven't been able to find a way to get him to take those. I'm going to get a syringe with a needle, and try to get the needle in its mouth, and maybe that way I can administer the meds.

Anyone have any thoughts, comments, or advice on either of my two sulcatas? Thanks!

The first thing you should do is get the one out of that aquarium. You are cooking him with that big bulb and a small tank. Especially a 15 gallon is way too small and doesn't allow for a heat gradient. A rubbermaid tub or sweater box is better. You want low sides that allow air to flow and it keeps the heat to under the basking light.
Please don't try to put a needle in his mouth that will cause more destruction. I totally agree with Laura about the Spring Mix then I cut it up into smaller bites for the tiny mouths they have. I use a black light bulb for nighttime heat, I think they are better then the red.
If I have to give oral meds to a tortoise that won't open their mouth I cut up a strawberry and inject it with the meds. I have never yet seen a Sulcata that could resist a strawberry.
Their livers can't process sugar the way ours does, so strawberrys are not to be fed regularly...but for meds they are perfect.
Something else that I do that most people laugh at, is when I have a case like yours instead of soaking them in plain water, I soak them in strained carrots, baby food. I have done it for years and my sister for years before me. (No, I didn't soak my sister silly!). If they would take a drink they get Vit A, if they don't drink they do absorb some thru the cloaca, right now I am soaking a hatchling box turtle in carrots and for the first time his eyes are open and I'm thinking he might live. I think it's the baby food that brings them around...
You are doing correctly by soaking them everyday. I always soak my babies that often, especially if they under a hot light.
You didn't say what kind of substrate they are on...and please keep them separate while they are so sick. I hope this helps you some...
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,390
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
Everyone: Using a syringe with the needle attached to put meds or liquid food into the tortoise's mouth is ok. That's the way some vets teach you to do. That's the way my bird vet taught me to put meds in my bird's mouth. You have to be careful, but when you get the mouth open, its quite easy to get the needle into the mouth without actually poking the needle into any tissue. Its something you have to be very careful with, but it can be done, and its way easier than using the syringe without the needle attached.

Another point: I'm not real sure, but I THINK when you soak the tortoise in either vitamin water or baby food water, they absorb the nutrients through the thin skin under their throat and the thin skin around the cloaca. It USED to be thought that they actually drank through their cloaca. That's not the case.

Please don't think I'm counter-manding your very good instructions...just adding a bit to them.

Yvonne
 

SoulKata

New Member
10 Year Member!
5 Year Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
7
Whoa! I'm definetly going to try to soak them in baby food carrots. It's one of those things that gets you to think, "Why didn't I think of that?"

My sickling is in shredded wood, like that used for hampsters. The little newer hatchling is in CAL-SAND, you know that calcuim sand stuff that's safe if they ingest. I would like to get some clean topsoil, but have no idea where to get any, and I'm in NYC. Same thing goes for dandelions, and other foods that sulcatas like. All I could find is wheatgrass.

I would ideally like to plant different foods into a large tubberware, and have the hatchling roam free in there. Free to roam, eat at her leisure, and feel happy and safe. But again, seeds are hell to find. And if you yahoo search: Seed Stores, you get some weird stuff, everything but actual seeds. Anyone know where to get either live dandelions and other sulcata favorites or atleast their seeds?
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,390
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
Hi Soulkata: May we know your name? I know that you've been told that your substrate is ok for your babies, but I'm afraid you've been given the wrong scoop. That calci-sand actually DOES cause impaction if ingested. Get rid of that stuff right away! You can use aspen bedding until you can find some clean top soil. The only thing about aspen bedding is its really dry and you can't moisten it. The sulcatas require a bit of humidity to make sure they don't develop the pyramided carapace (upper shell). If you like the aspen bedding, then you can glue a sponge to the "ceiling" of the hiding place and keep the sponge moist. That will provide the humidity they need.

Do you have a hiding place for your little corner-hider? They are prey at that size and like to stay hidden to be safe. Also, with no hiding place they can't get away from the light. I think 150 watts is too hot for the little guys. I use only a 60 watt bulb, and I cover the habitat with aluminum foil to keep the air from the room from rushing into the habitat. If your house doesn't get below 60 degrees at night, then you don't need the night time bulb. Then later in the winter when the house DOES cool down too much, try to find a bulb with a lower wattage. A 60 watt black or red light will keep the habitat warm enough for night time. When you have baby tortoises set up indoors in a small habitat with lights and heaters, you essentially have them on "slow-cook." So you need to soak them at least every other day. They will become dehydrated very quickly under the lights in a closed-up habitat.

You can buy the packaged lettuce at the grocery store called "Spring Mix." This is a nice variety of very young leaves of the different kinds of greens. Collard greens should be fed sparingly, and romaine has very little nutrition. Carrots should be used also very sparingly, and they should be grated up or slightly cooked to make them softer. The spring mix is a nice enough variety and to that you can add your cactus, dandelion greens, maybe some clover or clean grass from the yard. Any clean weeds you might find will also be welcomed.

Yvonne

PS: The shredded wood might be pine. That's definitely bad for tortoises, and could be deadly.
 

SoulKata

New Member
10 Year Member!
5 Year Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
7
Hmmm. Okay, so perhaps I should go down to 100 watts. I just really don't want them to get too cold. My older one has a hiding place but the smaller one doesn't... I'll buy one first thing tomorrow morning. The smaller one is a little nervous creature I've noticed. And it does burrow itself, perhaps a sign that it is too hot. So I'll go down to 100 watts but I'll also put the sponge on the ceiling of the cave I'll be buying.

I'll keep the Cal-Sand until this weekend's Reptile Expo, they might have the Top Soil there, who knows?

Thank you so much!

-Joseph
 

K9KidsLove

New Member
10 Year Member!
5 Year Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
586
Hi...I think you are cooking your babies!! You need to pick up a temp gun or a digital thermometer with a probe on the end of a wire. Walmart carries the digital with probe for $12. It is by AccuRite and in our store it is in the right back near the ladders. You will put the probe at his basking spot for 45 minutes for an accurate temp. You will try to get one end of the enclosure 85-90 and the other end 70-80. If it is colder than 60 at night, a ceramic heat emitter is the best, tho some use black lights cause they are cheaper and nearly as good.
Good luck
Patsy
 
M

Maggie Cummings

Guest
SoulKata said:
Hmmm. Okay, so perhaps I should go down to 100 watts. I just really don't want them to get too cold. My older one has a hiding place but the smaller one doesn't... I'll buy one first thing tomorrow morning. The smaller one is a little nervous creature I've noticed. And it does burrow itself, perhaps a sign that it is too hot. So I'll go down to 100 watts but I'll also put the sponge on the ceiling of the cave I'll be buying.

I'll keep the Cal-Sand until this weekend's Reptile Expo, they might have the Top Soil there, who knows?

Thank you so much!

-Joseph

Hi Joseph...If that little tort is gonna have to stay in that aquarium for any length of time you need to go to a 60 watt bulb. 15 gallon tank isn't very big and you can be cooking the tort.
You can buy clean topsoil without additives at most big box stores or nursery's or any place they sell orchid bark or anything like that. I hope this helps you some...
Also...they are prey in the wild so his natural instincts tell him to hide when you hover over the tank. What cave do you mean? One of those half logs is the best thing you can buy.
Well, my arm is killing me and it's just getting too hard to type one handed...g'nite...
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,390
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
Plucky said:
Yvonne, Is 60 watts ok?

If I'm using 60 watts lamp, my tank temperature is rising bout 4 - 5 degrees celsius above room temperature.

I live in tropical country. Our daily temperature is around 31 C at day, 28 C at night.

So if I'm using 60 watts, the tank temperature become 35 or 36 C (below the lamp)
I'm not so sure with 35 or 36 C. I think it is too hot.

Are you using 60 watts? Is it ok?
Could you share your experience bout this...

Lukas

Hi Lukas: Yes, in a small habitat the 60watt bulb is just fine. I use a regular 60 watt incandescent bulb for daytime and a 60 watt black light bulb for night time. However, all of my "indoor" turtles and tortoises get some "outside" time, so they have the beneficial sun rays at least two or three times a week. If your indoor turtles and tortoises are not able to get the benefits of the natural sunshine, then you need to buy the special UVB bulbs for reptiles. I have no experience with them, so I can't tell you which one to buy.

35c converts to 95 farenheit. 35c directly under the light is quite ok. What is the temperature a little further away from the light? You should strive for a warm end and a not-so-warm end in his habitat. Since your room temperature is so warm, you might try moving your light up higher so its further away from the floor of the habitat.

Yvonne
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,390
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
Hi Lukas: Your habitat looks ok, but you need a hiding place for your little sulcata. They are prey and like to hide when they go to sleep. You can just fashion something out of a piece of cardboard or anything you have around the house. Just something he can crawl under to feel safe. Also, the hiding place gives him relief from having the light shine on him all the time.

Yvonne
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,390
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
Vjay is absolutely beautiful! He's bright-eyed and alert-looking. No wonder you love him.

(You can add a bit of water to your coconut coir substrate so that its slightly moist underneath the top layer. )

Yvonne
 

SoulKata

New Member
10 Year Member!
5 Year Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
7
UPDATE!!!!!!

Spring Mix rules! My youngling eats 1/4 cup of it everyday, along with some wheatgrass. I'm soaking her everyday, and even though she's been with me for a little over a week, she's not afraid when I pick her up anymore. Before she would go into her shell as if to say, "Oh sh*t, an eagle has got me." Now she's as calm as heck. I'm happy to see that I have to clean her cage because there's poop all over it, and an empty food bowl. She's doing great.

My older hatchling isn't doing as good. As a matter of fact, it looks borderline dead. I knew things would go this way because the Vet said they mostlikely will. He's not touching his food. Yesterday the Vet called me to give me the results of the tests he ran on my hatchling's poop, and it turns out he has worms. Worms in the stomach. I have an appointment this upcoming Wednesday. It hasn't moved much, his eyes are fully closed, and I don't know if I should just have him put to sleep.

Joseph
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top