Sulcata Weight Gain

[griefold]

I am sorry for not posting a new thread about this, thanks for the suggestion. I have a Sulcata hatchling that is just over 2 months old and I am concerned with his weight. I feed him a mix of weeds, lettuce of different types, rose bush leaves, mulberry leaves, cactus paddles, bermuda grass, and fescue grass. He is kept in a 50+ gallon tote with a lid while I keep the temperature between 76 and 82 degrees on the cool side for him. As part of a teaching project with my 6th grade students I have been taking him to school with me during the week and putting him into the same type of environment there. The problem I am facing is that for the last 4 weeks his weight has remained 80 grams. Length and girth around his center is showing growth, but not weight. Is this normal or do I need to worm the little guy. If worming is needed is there some natural or home remedy or do I really need to take him to the vet? Thanks for any advice before hand.

 

[Sulcata_Sandy]

I'm certainly no expert, but I will say that you are feeding him correctly, however four things I see that are not in alignment with natural habitat for Sulcata

1) temperature. WAY too cold. 90° night and for humid hide. 80° and no less for ambient, and a basking spot of 100-110°.

2) No mention of UVA/UVB lighting. Tortoise MUST have UV light, sunlight much preferred, but not always practical, especially over winter. Tortoises not provided UV light WILL develop metabolic bone disease (MBD) and this results in systemic and several shell/skeletal abnormalities.

3) Humidity. Shoot for 80% or better. They naturally are born into warm, moist burrows. Spring in Africa, with rains and most heat.

4) And I was reminded if this today! Don't handle unless you need to...for soaking or cleaning enclosure. Every time you touch them, they stress. I'd strongly recommend not taking him to school...or have him live in a closed chamber there. The constant change of surroundings is putting him in a chronic state of stress, I'm sure of it.


Any of these will be contributing to your Sulcata's lack of weight gain. I know more experienced keepers will jump in and add. I'm keeping it short and sweet and to the point. Lots of knowledge here. You came to the right place. Welcome!!

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And I noticed I missed something....SOAKING!!!
Gotta hydrate him. Soak him in warm water (85-95°) twice a day for 30 minutes.

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My closed chamber

 

[wellington]

First, have you read Toms threads below in my post for raising a healthy, smooth sulcata? Your temps should be 80 day and night with a humidity of 80% and a basking spot of 95+. You can feed him some pumpkin, seeds and all. Grind it all into a mush and feed. Do not cook it. It's said it is a natural dewormer.

 

[griefold]

He is handled very little. I have the UV bulb, it is a power sun bulb. I was under the mistaken impression that the temps could go down to that low at night and that will be addressed. The humidity is something that I am working on to maintain and I know that it is a constant battle. I forgot to mention that he is soaked at least once a day. I try to get two with a minimum amount of handling involved. I do have his basking spot at over 100, but not more than 110. For the other problems I will work on them.

Again thanks for the advice.

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Thanks for the advice and I have read those links several times before and more. The temp problem was a BIG misunderstanding on my part that I am going to be correcting tonight before I turn in. I have a temp control gauge and I have not set it to the correct temperature is all. This will be an easy fix. From what I have been reading it seems that these little guys tend to get worms a lot no matter how careful we are and that is my biggest worry. I just did not want to put some kind of poison in his system and risk making him sick or worse. The pumpkin mash will be very easy to make up, especially this time of year . Humidity and temp in the classroom enclosure is tightly controlled and I will limit his transfers starting tomorrow to keep the problem down to nothing. Thank you all again for the advice.

 

[rayneygirl]

i wish you all the best with your little one

 

[Tom]

Worms are a possibility, but probably not the issue. A fecal sample to the vet will confirm or deny their presence.

The main possible issues I see are:
1. Constant moving. Torts don't like this. Some desensitize better than others, but stability helps them.
2. Night temps are slightly low. Probably not your issue either, but no harm in warming him up a little.
3. Low humidity. Its not a battle in the right enclosure. Its easy. In the wrong enclosure, fighting it is futile.

Some people like to soak more than once a day. I don't think this will harm anything, but once a day works just fine for me. I even skip a day once in a while once they put on a little weight and size.

Question: Do you know how your tortoise was started as a hatchling? This might have everything to do with what you are seeing.

 

[griefold]

I will be fixing the nighttime temp problem this week. I just have to wait till pay day to buy a new CHE my last one just burned out on me yesterday and I had it less than a month. How long should they last? It was brand new from an Amazon.com dealer and it burned out already. I think that they should last a year or more at least. Can't return it even to a local pet store since it was more than a few days. Humidity will be better controlled once I get the new CHE as well. I will not be moving him as much starting today. I only take him to school with me since I work long days and we have 3 day weekends (4 day school weeks) and want to make sure he is safe. Going to fix that one. As for how he was started, I got him from Arizona Sulcata and I am very sure that he was started off real well. I even drove to pick him up instead of delivery so I am fairly sure he had a good start. Now I am seeing what I am doing wrong and I am going to be making the changes right away.

 

[Tom]

I will be fixing the nighttime temp problem this week. I just have to wait till pay day to buy a new CHE my last one just burned out on me yesterday and I had it less than a month. How long should they last? It was brand new from an Amazon.com dealer and it burned out already. I think that they should last a year or more at least. Can't return it even to a local pet store since it was more than a few days. Humidity will be better controlled once I get the new CHE as well. I will not be moving him as much starting today. I only take him to school with me since I work long days and we have 3 day weekends (4 day school weeks) and want to make sure he is safe. Going to fix that one. As for how he was started, I got him from Arizona Sulcata and I am very sure that he was started off real well. I even drove to pick him up instead of delivery so I am fairly sure he had a good start. Now I am seeing what I am doing wrong and I am going to be making the changes right away.

CHEs don't usually ever burn out. I am using one today that has been in continuous use since 1991. There is no reason that you should not be able to return that CHE bulb. It was clearly defective. Your baby cannot wait until payday to be warm at night. You can use a "black" light temporarily if needed. These can be found at the hardware store or at one of the many Halloween stores that are open this time of year.

Austin does start his babies well, so that is NOT your issue.

Here is an idea for the school thing. Instead of using two enclosures can you leave him in one enclosure and just move the whole thing? That way at least he is in "his" enclosure even when you move it to a new place.

 

[griefold]

Did not think about the black light, will have one picked up today before I get home.

The enclosure is a 55 gallon tank with a eco earth in the bottom, it weighs too much for me to move and the way I get to school is a shuttle bus. I am going to just leave him in the enclosure as much as possible and drive myself out on weekends to check him daily if that is best. It is not that far from home and it is best for him to stay in one place then I need to do that for him.

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I will look into exchanging the CHE, may get lucky. I am not used to returning things online is all. Thanks for the advice.

 

[LisaTurtle]

I just got a bunch of black lights from the dollar store in their Halloween section

 

[griefold]

Have to wait till I get off of work to get to the store, thanks for the advice.

 

[Dizisdalife]

Does your tortoise get any outdoor time? Sunshine, fresh air, and exercise? Many of us have used an outdoor pen where our hatchling can get 30 minutes to an hour of sun and exercise each day. I believe that sulcata need lots of exercise to help their digestion. You may also want to get the fecal exam done to be sure there are no pinworms. I am sure the possiblity is remote, but it is the one thing that can be transfered to humans. If it were me I would want to tell the parents of those 6th graders that the tortoise has be tested and there is no danger to their children.

 

[griefold]

Until last week when my outside temps dropped below 75 he was outside at least half an hour every day sometimes more. Until the temps go back up in April I am going to keep him inside with the power sun bulb and natural sunlight through the windows as much as possible. I was not aware that Pin Worms can be transfered to humans, and the students are not allowed to handle Alex due to safety concerns. I will get him in this weekend for an exam, time permitting since I have to work all weekend. If not my brother will take him in for me for the exam. Thanks for letting me know about the pin worms.

 

[griefold]

To go along with the weight gain problem, how do I know if I am stressing out the little guy? I try not to handle him now, but I thought that it was alright once in a while to pet him or hold him. I am afraid to come near him now for fear of making things worse. What is the proper balance. I know that there are going to be a very great amount of opinions in this area and I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

 

[TerriTurtle]

I hold mine frequently! He is super friendly and healthy. I got him at 1 month old, and he is now 4.5 months old, and 187 grams. As far as I'm concerned, handling and playing with them is part of the fun. Of course he is kept in ideal conditions when he's not spending time being my buddy.

 

[Dizisdalife]

Having the fecal exam is a precautionary thing. You need to do it to eliminate it as one of the possible causes. My baby sulcata had worms and I handled him, cleaned his enclosure and such, and did not get pin worms. I was careful though. If night time temps are the cause then raising them will produce some results in a few weeks. I handled my baby for all the routine task; soaking, cleaning the enclosure, taking him outside for sun and exercise, and occasionally just to hold him, without any ill effects that I was aware of. From what I have read here I would guess that the frequent transferring is the cause of any undue stress. In my limited experience I have noted that they just don't travel well. I kept a friends 6 year old for a couple of days. The first day she was fine. She ate and paced like a sulcata should. By the 3rd day she had stopped eatting and spent most of her time hiding. When she went back home it took a few days there for her routine to return to normal. They are homebodies that like to stick to a routine that makes them comfortable.

 

[Tom]

To go along with the weight gain problem, how do I know if I am stressing out the little guy? I try not to handle him now, but I thought that it was alright once in a while to pet him or hold him. I am afraid to come near him now for fear of making things worse. What is the proper balance. I know that there are going to be a very great amount of opinions in this area and I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

I wouldn't worry too much about this. Just do what you need to do and try to generally leave him alone until he starts gaining weight again. Soaking, sunning and that sort of thing won't be a big deal. Going for a ride across town, and putting him into a different enclosure, will be perceived by the tortoise as more of a big deal.

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In my limited experience I have noted that they just don't travel well. I kept a friends 6 year old for a couple of days. The first day she was fine. She ate and paced like a sulcata should. By the 3rd day she had stopped eatting and spent most of her time hiding. When she went back home it took a few days there for her routine to return to normal. They are homebodies that like to stick to a routine that makes them comfortable.

I have noticed this too. It takes them a long time to really get comfortable. Years sometimes for adults.

 

[griefold]

To go along with the weight gain problem, how do I know if I am stressing out the little guy? I try not to handle him now, but I thought that it was alright once in a while to pet him or hold him. I am afraid to come near him now for fear of making things worse. What is the proper balance. I know that there are going to be a very great amount of opinions in this area and I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

I wouldn't worry too much about this. Just do what you need to do and try to generally leave him alone until he starts gaining weight again. Soaking, sunning and that sort of thing won't be a big deal. Going for a ride across town, and putting him into a different enclosure, will be perceived by the tortoise as more of a big deal.

---

In my limited experience I have noted that they just don't travel well. I kept a friends 6 year old for a couple of days. The first day she was fine. She ate and paced like a sulcata should. By the 3rd day she had stopped eatting and spent most of her time hiding. When she went back home it took a few days there for her routine to return to normal. They are homebodies that like to stick to a routine that makes them comfortable.

I have noticed this too. It takes them a long time to really get comfortable. Years sometimes for adults.

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The travelling will stop on Monday when I take him back to the school for the last time. Thanks for the advice.

 

[griefold]

I am glad to say that Alex's growth seems to be on the rise again. I have a very ideal sealed tank in the classroom that he thoroughly seems to enjoy. He runs himself around the tank to the places that I have the students place his food. I figured if he has to walk from place to place it would be good for him during the colder months. He has started to create two burrows for himself on the hot side of the tank where he backs into them and sleeps for hours at a time. I was under the impression that he would prefer sleeping under his log, but I guess not. The students love seeing him dig his burrows deeper everyday and since they are in the corners of the tank we can watch them in process. It is really neat.