Survivors of yellow bump

Warren

Well-Known Member
Tortoise Club
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 24, 2019
Messages
357
Location (City and/or State)
Balto. MD
Good question, been thinking about asking almost the same thing. Are there any case of adults Tortoises having this problem, all the stories that I have been reading are about baby or young Tortoises.
 

jcase

Well-Known Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Messages
252
Location (City and/or State)
Pittsboro, NC
i do not know of any long term survivors personally. i will check with a few people and the lab who has done testing on the gopher with this to see if they have seem any.
I have a question but not worth making a thread. Why does it seem everyone is avoiding actually naming sources of these outbreaks? Is it a liability concern (which I can understand if it is)?
 

mastershake

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Messages
534
Location (City and/or State)
Florida
there is no name for them. its not really an outbreak. its sick animals being shipped by specific people / breeders. the animals previously found with this such as the gopher tort was a single individual so its not an outbreak per se.
 

jcase

Well-Known Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Messages
252
Location (City and/or State)
Pittsboro, NC
there is no name for them. its not really an outbreak. its sick animals being shipped by specific people / breeders. the animals previously found with this such as the gopher tort was a single individual so its not an outbreak per se.
I guess I worded it poorly, let me reword it.

Why does it seem everyone is avoiding naming the the breeders/sellers who have infected animals in their colonies, and are still selling them? The textbooks make it seem like this is a rarer disease, yet I keep seeing threads about it.
 

mastershake

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Messages
534
Location (City and/or State)
Florida
because many people are working on ways to *try* to find ways to stop it. it may not be able to be stopped but there are people trying. it is actually a rare disease thats why its so important to try to get it stopped. but the info is out there if you read through. the main breeder has been named in a couple threads already if you do some reading through them. there has been no way to get anyone like usda etc to be involved to put a stop to it. there is a new case in a gopher tort and they take those very seriously so there are looking into avenues they can use that case for to help *maybe* do anything. as far as sellers of them its been pretty much anyone who resells them with a very few exceptions in the country now since the main source is a larger scale wholesaler. the key now is to look to private breeders who have NOT had cases vs the other way around and avoid pet stores and other places that you dont know the source of their babies. the issue again is most will claim to have bred these babies themselves where they are actually buying them wholesale then reselling to the public claiming they did hatch them. some 100 or more at a time.
 

Maro2Bear

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
May 29, 2014
Messages
13,582
Location (City and/or State)
Glenn Dale, Maryland, USA
Yesterday I was reading/perusing various papers dealing with Austwickia. One source says it’s been out there/identified since at least 1915.

➡️ Dermatophilosis has been described in many animals since it was first reported in 1915. In 2010, the genus and species associated with chelonid dermatophilosis was reclassified as Austwickia chelonae.

➡️➡️https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0021997519302907
 

jcase

Well-Known Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Messages
252
Location (City and/or State)
Pittsboro, NC
because many people are working on ways to *try* to find ways to stop it. it may not be able to be stopped but there are people trying. it is actually a rare disease thats why its so important to try to get it stopped. but the info is out there if you read through. the main breeder has been named in a couple threads already if you do some reading through them. there has been no way to get anyone like usda etc to be involved to put a stop to it. there is a new case in a gopher tort and they take those very seriously so there are looking into avenues they can use that case for to help *maybe* do anything. as far as sellers of them its been pretty much anyone who resells them with a very few exceptions in the country now since the main source is a larger scale wholesaler. the key now is to look to private breeders who have NOT had cases vs the other way around and avoid pet stores and other places that you dont know the source of their babies. the issue again is most will claim to have bred these babies themselves where they are actually buying them wholesale then reselling to the public claiming they did hatch them. some 100 or more at a time.
Must have missed it, thank you!

This seller behavior combined with people absolutely refusing to quarantine animals, is pretty concerning.
 

Tortoisebreeder

Active Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Messages
323
Location (City and/or State)
SanDiego California
Do you think this is it one of the Greeks I imported earlier this year
 

Attachments

  • E5F3FFF7-CA19-4DC0-BA0A-EA994A61A6E7.jpeg
    E5F3FFF7-CA19-4DC0-BA0A-EA994A61A6E7.jpeg
    1.2 MB · Views: 62
  • 9DD61B9C-AA6D-4E1D-9591-EE7B4AD17B9A.jpeg
    9DD61B9C-AA6D-4E1D-9591-EE7B4AD17B9A.jpeg
    1.2 MB · Views: 62

Jan A

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2021
Messages
1,697
Location (City and/or State)
Boulder, CO
I guess I worded it poorly, let me reword it.

Why does it seem everyone is avoiding naming the the breeders/sellers who have infected animals in their colonies, and are still selling them? The textbooks make it seem like this is a rarer disease, yet I keep seeing threads about it.
Let's be honest. Anyone believing their livelihood is being falsely accused of unproven claims they are knowingly selling sick animals and these allegations were coming from the forum would be probably looking to shut TF down or trying to force TF to release the names of the accusers.

Mixed in with all of this is aw requires a more intensive biopsy than normal AND fewer exotic vets are familiar with aw or the biopsy required to diagnose. Thus, wayward sellers can continue to sell as if they have no problems.

I cringe when I see ads on craigslist with 30 baby sulcatas. You have no idea who the seller is or whether they're ignoring symptoms, not to mention if they start them the right way.

My thought was to try & stop these sellers from being able to sell/exhibit at reptile shows by members individually putting pressure on the hosts of these events, but that doesn't stop their Internet business. If we can post online reviews, there's another point.

I have no hope the federal government or most state governments are capable of intervening in a helpful manner...maybe the Better Business Bureau from the standpoint many businesses, including pet shops, are signed up with them.
 

jcase

Well-Known Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Messages
252
Location (City and/or State)
Pittsboro, NC
Let's be honest. Anyone believing their livelihood is being falsely accused of unproven claims they are knowingly selling sick animals and these allegations were coming from the forum would be probably looking to shut TF down or trying to force TF to release the names of the accusers.

Mixed in with all of this is aw requires a more intensive biopsy than normal AND fewer exotic vets are familiar with aw or the biopsy required to diagnose. Thus, wayward sellers can continue to sell as if they have no problems.

I cringe when I see ads on craigslist with 30 baby sulcatas. You have no idea who the seller is or whether they're ignoring symptoms, not to mention if they start them the right way.

My thought was to try & stop these sellers from being able to sell/exhibit at reptile shows by members individually putting pressure on the hosts of these events, but that doesn't stop their Internet business. If we can post online reviews, there's another point.

I have no hope the federal government or most state governments are capable of intervening in a helpful manner...maybe the Better Business Bureau from the standpoint many businesses, including pet shops, are signed up with them.
BBB is a joke, and unless it starts impacting cattle or something we eat i doubt the government is going to leap into action.

Agree, I cringe anytime I see someone obviously reselling hoards of animals. If you haven't had them long enough to know they are good, or are not being up front about the source, then I'm not keen on buying from you
 

ZenHerper

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2020
Messages
2,080
Location (City and/or State)
New Jersey
...stop these sellers from being able to sell/exhibit at reptile shows by members individually putting pressure on the hosts of these events...
Shows make part of their money from vendor space rental...organizers have no real vested interest in banning their paying retailers. Heck, people can't even get behind rational prevention of COVID spread at stores, museums, schools, and concerts, so how does one write an anti-AW policy for reptile vendors? And who's to say they won't bring visually unaffected animals (that get bumps and erosions in a few weeks -- which is what we see most of the time).

Store reviews can be effective...unless the website owner has control over which reviews get posted. Reviews here can be helpful...if people know that they should be researching a pet as hard as they do any other serious household purchase (appliance, car, apartment, contractor...).

Yes, it comes down to mostly Buyer Beware and people knowing how to be their own consumer advocate.
 

dd33

Well-Known Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Messages
252
Location (City and/or State)
Florida
@mastershake has the method of transmission been figured out yet? Are the adult breeder animals able to live with it and pass it on to juveniles through the egg (or on the egg)? It seems like the broodstock would be dead by now if they were as susceptible to it.
 

Jan A

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2021
Messages
1,697
Location (City and/or State)
Boulder, CO
Do you think this is it one of the Greeks I imported earlier this year
You might want to pm @mastershake directly.

If not already, you need to quarantine this little guy immediately. If you got him at the same time with other torts, OMG. I sure hope this is not aw.

But as Yvonne said, keep his stuff/bowls, etc. separate from your other torts. Ammonia is the only thing that works to kill the bacteria, not bleach.

There is plenty to read in other threads. Last I recall, it was mainly being seen in sulcatas. There was 1 case in a red foot. So, I hope this isn't what your Greek has. But quarantine him until you know. Big hug!!
 

mastershake

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Messages
534
Location (City and/or State)
Florida
@mastershake has the method of transmission been figured out yet? Are the adult breeder animals able to live with it and pass it on to juveniles through the egg (or on the egg)? It seems like the broodstock would be dead by now if they were as susceptible to it.
i have posted this info many times. its through contact. not air. they can get it from fecal matter on the eggs as they break out, the soil, water, other torts, the enclosure they are in etc etc pretty much anywhere and anything that has been in contact with it.
 

mastershake

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Messages
534
Location (City and/or State)
Florida
Shows make part of their money from vendor space rental...organizers have no real vested interest in banning their paying retailers. Heck, people can't even get behind rational prevention of COVID spread at stores, museums, schools, and concerts, so how does one write an anti-AW policy for reptile vendors? And who's to say they won't bring visually unaffected animals (that get bumps and erosions in a few weeks -- which is what we see most of the time).

Store reviews can be effective...unless the website owner has control over which reviews get posted. Reviews here can be helpful...if people know that they should be researching a pet as hard as they do any other serious household purchase (appliance, car, apartment, contractor...).

Yes, it comes down to mostly Buyer Beware and people knowing how to be their own consumer advocate.
i went through someone here early 2020. thats what started all the time and effort to figure this out. this person sent them to me as ones they bred but in fact got them from another breeder which i did not find out till months later and back and forth. so even buying them here you have to be very careful.
 
Last edited:
Top