Testudo hermanni name change over...

[Terry Allan Hall]

When did the Hermann's tortoise subspecies change from Testudo hermanni hermanni to Testudo hermanni boettgeri (eastern subspecies) and Testudo hermanni robertmertensi to Testudo hermanni hermanni (western subspecies)?

Several of my older tortoise books (up 'til at least 1984) use the older names, so I'm curious as the the whys and wherefores...

 

[GBtortoises]

The current identifications didn't really change from the old ones, they came back into use. I cannot recall all the details but if memory serves me a little, the individual example that was used for the nominate ID which would have been Testudo hermanni hermanni(robertmertensi) and was a Western Hermann's later mis-identified as an Eastern, causing it to then be considered the nominate example. So at that point the Eastern Hermann was for a while, considered the primarly species example with the Western Hermann's becoming the subspecies. Sometime in the late 70's, early 80's (again if memory serves me), the complex was re-evaluated and it was accepted that the Western was the true nominate species with the Eastern being the subspecies.

The Westerns were the subspecies Testudo hermanni robertmertensi and are now nominate species as T. h. hermanni
The Easterns were the nominate species Testudo hermanni hermanni and are now a subspecies as T. h. boettgeri
There is a third, widely accepted subspecies, the Dalmatian Hermann's, T. h. hercegovinensis and even a fourth proposed, but so far unfounded population found in extremely small numbers, the Peloponese Hermann's, T. h. peloponnesica.

The fourth proposed subspecies, so far by all accounts may be nothing more than a regional variation of T. h. bottgeri.

I'm throwing this all off the top of my head so if someone has better facts please post them! Chris or Danny?

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

The current identifications didn't really change from the old ones, they came back into use. I cannot recall all the details but if memory serves me a little, the individual example that was used for the nominate ID which would have been Testudo hermanni hermanni(robertmertensi) and was a Western Hermann's later mis-identified as an Eastern, causing it to then be considered the nominate example. So at that point the Eastern Hermann was for a while, considered the primarly species example with the Western Hermann's becoming the subspecies. Sometime in the late 70's, early 80's (again if memory serves me), the complex was re-evaluated and it was accepted that the Western was the true nominate species with the Eastern being the subspecies.

The Westerns were the subspecies Testudo hermanni robertmertensi and are now nominate species as T. h. hermanni
The Easterns were the nominate species Testudo hermanni hermanni and are now a subspecies as T. h. boettgeri
There is a third, widely accepted subspecies, the Dalmatian Hermann's, T. h. hercegovinensis and even a fourth proposed, but so far unfounded population found in extremely small numbers, the Peloponese Hermann's, T. h. peloponnesica.

The fourth proposed subspecies, so far by all accounts may be nothing more than a regional variation of T. h. bottgeri.

I'm throwing this all off the top of my head so if someone has better facts please post them! Chris or Danny?

Interesting...the oldest book I have that lists them by the "old" designations has a published date of 1863, but there may well be oldest texts available.

 

[egyptiandan]

Very close Gary

Seeing as the type specimen that went with the original description of Testudo hermanni was lost, everyone assumed it was from the east. So there were no subspecies up until 1952 when Wermuth described the Hermanns from France as T.h.robertmertensi. This than made the population from the east the nominate subspecies, T.h.hermanni.
In the early 1980's the type specimen was found and it was found to be a Hermanns from the western population. So that made the western Hermmans the nominate race, T.h.hermanni. This than made T.h.robertmertensi a junior synonym of T.h.hermanni. The oldest name available for the eastern population was T.h.boettgeri, Mojsisovics 1889.

Danny

 

[GBtortoises]

Yeah, I remember that now, I knew it was something like that, but like a lot of things, it's all bouncing around in my brain, most of it scrambled!