Thermal Imaging Study linked with Extra Virgin Coconut Oil

glitch4200

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FLIR0076.jpg FLIR0075.jpg FLIR0078.jpg FLIR0077.jpg FLIR0080.jpg FLIR0079.jpg My Nibbles habitat in thermal imaging after all 3 lamps were turned on at 7:30am this morning. I didn't have my fan so it was a little to warm in spots for me. This is unhydrated substrate. I will show the difference between wet and dry, just because i want to lol
 

biochemnerd808

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I don't mean to be negative Nancy, but I am a little surprised this is being presented as something 'new' or 'revolutionary' (is it?) - people have said for a long time that putting coconut oil on tortoise shells is 'less harmful' than a lot of other stuff (e.g. mineral oil or that wax stuff). However, when people said it was Ok, the intent was certainly not to recommend daily use.

My tortoises have beautiful smooth shells, and I do NOT schmeer their shells with stuff. They spend April-October outdoors getting muddy, and they spend Dec-March in a fridge at 40 degrees, and the couple months in between, they have large tortoise tables with high quality lighting. I mist them several times daily, and I leave dirt on their shells. I don't think coconut oil would harm them. However, I don't find that it is necessary to achieve a healthy, beautiful tortoise shell. Beautiful shells are a reflection of a healthy lifestyle, so first and foremost, I think a tortoise keeper should spend energy (and money if necessary) on providing best possible food (widely varied dark leafy greens), ample space (preferably outdoors for part of the year at least), and high quality lighting and supplements.

Do your tortoises get to spend time outside?
 

glitch4200

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I don't mean to be negative Nancy, but I am a little surprised this is being presented as something 'new' or 'revolutionary' (is it?) - people have said for a long time that putting coconut oil on tortoise shells is 'less harmful' than a lot of other stuff (e.g. mineral oil or that wax stuff). However, when people said it was Ok, the intent was certainly not to recommend daily use.

My tortoises have beautiful smooth shells, and I do NOT schmeer their shells with stuff. They spend April-October outdoors getting muddy, and they spend Dec-March in a fridge at 40 degrees, and the couple months in between, they have large tortoise tables with high quality lighting. I mist them several times daily, and I leave dirt on their shells. I don't think coconut oil would harm them. However, I don't find that it is necessary to achieve a healthy, beautiful tortoise shell. Beautiful shells are a reflection of a healthy lifestyle, so first and foremost, I think a tortoise keeper should spend energy (and money if necessary) on providing best possible food (widely varied dark leafy greens), ample space (preferably outdoors for part of the year at least), and high quality lighting and supplements.

Do your tortoises get to spend time outside?


Unfortunately they do not get to spend much time outside. I live in Illinois, where i live in the suburbs i have packs of coyotes, skunks, hawks, possoms, and racoons and stupid *** teenagers that roam freely and often into my yard since i live by big forest preserve. So they can not have an outdoor enclosure. I do bring them outside a couple times a week when it is nice, and this summer ill be making a fully supervised habitat that i can watch outside. But 90% of there time is spent indoors under these "unfiltered" lamps.
 

glitch4200

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Obviously, i am not saying you need extra virgin coconut oil to raise a healthy tortoise. As decades of peoples tortoise keeping and research has proved otherwise. But, i am not dismissing the fact that possibly this oil can offer something more then what is widely believed. I am offering the best diet i can buy, buying all the mixed bags of weed and flowers i can find to give them the absolute most variety possible. Rotating my diet every 3 to 4 days, consistently keeping tabs what i feed each week/month. I am trying my best.
 

biochemnerd808

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One way in which you could expand their diet would be to plant some of the excellent broadleaf seed mixes that are available.
@TylerStewart has a great mix available here: http://www.tortoisesupply.com/TestudoMix
and Carolina Pet Supply has one, too: http://www.carolinapetsupply.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=41

This would allow you to expand their diet.

If you have yard space, you could build a fully enclosed dog-kennel type enclosure out of chain link fencing, with cemented in metal support structure. @Tom has done this for his Russian torts. You could even add a lock, to keep humans out. :) Illinois gets very cold during the winter, but there are definitely some summer months that would allow for many hours of healthy outdoor sun. :)
 

glitch4200

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One way in which you could expand their diet would be to plant some of the excellent broadleaf seed mixes that are available.
@TylerStewart has a great mix available here: http://www.tortoisesupply.com/TestudoMix
and Carolina Pet Supply has one, too: http://www.carolinapetsupply.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=41

This would allow you to expand their diet.

If you have yard space, you could build a fully enclosed dog-kennel type enclosure out of chain link fencing, with cemented in metal support structure. You could even add a lock, to keep humans out. :) Illinois gets very cold during the winter, but there are definitely some summer months that would allow for many hours of healthy outdoor sun. :)

This would be perfect as i have a lot of yard space. But, currently until April, until i move into my house. I will not be able to set up a outdoor habitat. Eventually, if this house gets approved. Ill be able to set up a section for them securely. But until then they are inside. Which i foresee will be awhile until i get settled.

I actually have just ordered some seeds and ill be growing them soon. Along with , tortoise herbal mix, a foliage mix and my rotating diet. Its the best i think i can do in my current situation. Both my tortoises will get a upgraded home soon as well.

And sadness they are all out now..
 

leigti

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Can you build a nice 6 foot tall private fence? Or even a six-foot tall chain-link? then you could build an enclosure with hardware cloth below and above to keep the critters out. you can also bring your tortoises and at night because that's when most of the bad critters are out anyway. Even just a couple months of daily outdoor environment and the natural sunlight will help. I live in Washington state and my tortoise is inside about six months out of the year. I feel bad about that but at least the other six months she has a great environment to be in. Definitely put some effort into more outdoor time for your tortoises when weather allows. My enclosure is then has a class that I can put a padlock through to keep people out if I wanted to. I Think a little bit of moderation would go a long ways in your experiment. Many many people here on this forum have indoor and outdoor enclosures. I do realize that there are situations were tortoises cannot be outside at all.and in these situations much more time money and effort has to be put into their care. I know it is the situation that you are exploring with The coconut oil.
I guess what I am trying to say is don't put all your eggs in one basket, don't expect the coconut oil to make up for the rest of the environment and care. I have read your coconut oil thread and I have started putting it on my tortoise every couple weeks. She is wild caught and has a very damaged shell. but I probably will not put it on in the summer when she is outside. I don't want anything coming between her and sunshine, rain, dirt etc.
 

glitch4200

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Can you build a nice 6 foot tall private fence? Or even a six-foot tall chain-link? then you could build an enclosure with hardware cloth below and above to keep the critters out. you can also bring your tortoises and at night because that's when most of the bad critters are out anyway. Even just a couple months of daily outdoor environment and the natural sunlight will help. I live in Washington state and my tortoise is inside about six months out of the year. I feel bad about that but at least the other six months she has a great environment to be in. Definitely put some effort into more outdoor time for your tortoises when weather allows. My enclosure is then has a class that I can put a padlock through to keep people out if I wanted to. I Think a little bit of moderation would go a long ways in your experiment. Many many people here on this forum have indoor and outdoor enclosures. I do realize that there are situations were tortoises cannot be outside at all.and in these situations much more time money and effort has to be put into their care. I know it is the situation that you are exploring with The coconut oil.
I guess what I am trying to say is don't put all your eggs in one basket, don't expect the coconut oil to make up for the rest of the environment and care. I have read your coconut oil thread and I have started putting it on my tortoise every couple weeks. She is wild caught and has a very damaged shell. but I probably will not put it on in the summer when she is outside. I don't want anything coming between her and sunshine, rain, dirt etc.


My application of EVCO is only in combination with the best diet i can buy or grow that rotates weekly (with TNT supp), along with decent sustained ambient humidity of around 60%, although by the end of day its back down to 30% or lower.. I provide humid moist hides that these tortoises often choose to sleep in, as well as a proper temperature gradient, access to sun when i can, i soak both of them almost every single day (which they now drink water from there bath every single day), and i take them out in my living room squared off by unclimbable objects (although they try hard) for running around. (totally supervised , No cats or Dogs). I can not stress this enough, that this is not trying to replace any important husbandry technique already established that is needed to raise a healthy, good looking tortoise. I am merely trying to work towards finding out if extra virigin coconut oil has any benefits a tortoise keeper can possibly use.
 

leigti

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I appreciate what you are trying to figure out. The problem is you don't have enough information to get a real answer. you will just be guessing not knowing. You can measure every minute from now till the cows come home and it won't matter, because you don't have a baseline control group. I hate to see so much enthusiasm and energy wasted.
 

glitch4200

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I appreciate what you are trying to figure out. The problem is you don't have enough information to get a real answer. you will just be guessing not knowing. You can measure every minute from now till the cows come home and it won't matter, because you don't have a baseline control group. I hate to see so much enthusiasm and energy wasted.

It's never a waste lol who knows if down the line I can come back to this information for support in some way. I mean I am really just trying to understand them as best as I can from different angles. To be honest, I just find these pictures interesting, I don't see many people going out , renting a almost $3000 thermal imaging camera just because he is curious about some stuff and posting there thoughts and pictures out loud for people to judge and put there two sense in. I may not doing it the ol scientific way that people crave so dearly. But at least these ideas are out there for people to ponder. I just want feedback on what people think that's all.
 

WithLisa

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Not sure, but some pictures seem to be some kind of overlay of a photo and the thermal picture? The last ones are better.

The scale is always between the hottest and coldest temperature in the picture, so there is no point in making a picture of the enclosure with the heat lamp (it just shows that the lamp shade is 200°, but it says nothing about the enclosure).
I would try to make pictures of just the tortoise with as little surroundings as possible.

Maybe you can find another owner that would lend you an unoiled tortoise for the experiment?
 
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leigti

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The scientific method is there for a reason. Do you even know what it is? I think not. Not following it will not be helpful in anyway. you can ponder, toss around ideas, ask opinions, but you will not get an answer.not an accurate answer anyway.if you were fine with that then that is your right. but don't expect other people to give you any sort of in formed answer without all the facts.
 

glitch4200

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The scientific method is there for a reason. Do you even know what it is? I think not. Not following it will not be helpful in anyway. you can ponder, toss around ideas, ask opinions, but you will not get an answer.not an accurate answer anyway.if you were fine with that then that is your right. but don't expect other people to give you any sort of in formed answer without all the facts.

I mean i best know what the scientific method is being a psychology major and all... I understand your need for a control group. I can't provide one. Maybe someone who happends to stumble upon this becomes curious like I am and can provide a control group of russian tortoises who have never received EVCO applications. Who knows maybe one day ill be able to come back and use these photos for reference just for myself. Or if i have tortoise babies, ill be able to provide a better experiment.
 

HLogic

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Two points... The control group would need to be in the same environment as the test group so as to expose them to the same heating, lighting, etc. Having another keeper perform a similar experiment will not work because of the differences. You are measuring surface temperature not core temperature. Core temperature is measured from inside.

Interesting data may be gleaned from this study (and experience with an interesting device gained) but comparative analysis and conclusions regarding the efficacy of the treatment should be avoided considering the limitations of the current experiment.
 

Yvonne G

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It's been a very interesting thread and I appreciate what you're trying to do.

I was a bit worried about the temp of the tortoise. He always shows pretty darned hot.

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to do this and sharing it with us.
 

glitch4200

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It's been a very interesting thread and I appreciate what you're trying to do.

I was a bit worried about the temp of the tortoise. He always shows pretty darned hot.

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to do this and sharing it with us.

I appreciate that. Thank you. And she is so warm because she sits under the heat lamp all day lol. So when i got home last night, there she was in her usual position, soaking up those "unfiltered" rays with the same cute little smirk as always. :) Same with nibbles he can choose to be cool if he wants but chooses to be that warm.
 

wellington

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I agree with Yvonne and I think some of you should lighten up,and appreciate what is being done. They never said this was a scientific experiment. There is soemthing to be learned here and it's just interesting to see. If you just take it for what it is, you will see that if nothing else, the oil seems to have evened out the heat on the tortoise what the pics from the other experiment shows hot spots. Yes we new this was the case from these bulbs, but we didn't know the oil would even it out and to me that is what appears to be happening. Give them a break. At least they are trying to do something and share it with us all.

I would like to see how long the tortoise stays that temp and what the temp,would be taken out of the enclosure. I appreciate you taking the time and money to do this and sharing it with us.
 
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