Thermal Imaging Study linked with Extra Virgin Coconut Oil

glitch4200

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I agree with Yvonne and I think some of you should lighten up,and appreciate what is being done. They never said this was a scientific experiment. There is soemthing to be learned here and it's just interesting to see. If you just take it for what it is, you will see that if nothing else, the oil seems to have evened out the heat on the tortoise what the pics from the other experiment shows hot spots. Yes we new this was the case from these bulbs, but we didn't know the oil would even it out and to me that is what appears to be happening. Give them a break. At least they are trying to do something and share it with us all.

I would like to see how long the tortoise stays that temp and what the temp,would be taken out of the enclosure. I appreciate you taking the time and money to do this and sharing it with us.

I appreciate the kind words. It means a lot. I am just putting this out there people, take it for what its worth. I have like 300 more compare and contrast pics of this morning bask for both tortoises. From cool to fully heated. And i see uneven hot spots as a result of these lamps, and some of them even mimic what i should everyone with the grid heating pattern. I find it fascinating, despite it not proving anything concrete. It shows me a lot about them and how the heat up.
 

glitch4200

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I agree with Yvonne and I think some of you should lighten up,and appreciate what is being done. They never said this was a scientific experiment. There is soemthing to be learned here and it's just interesting to see. If you just take it for what it is, you will see that if nothing else, the oil seems to have evened out the heat on the tortoise what the pics from the other experiment shows hot spots. Yes we new this was the case from these bulbs, but we didn't know the oil would even it out and to me that is what appears to be happening. Give them a break. At least they are trying to do something and share it with us all.

I would like to see how long the tortoise stays that temp and what the temp,would be taken out of the enclosure. I appreciate you taking the time and money to do this and sharing it with us.

Thank you.. It means a lot. This may not be perfect. But i don't see anyone else doing anything like that, that i can find. I think its a unique perspective from my point of view and I am just toying with all of this making sure i do not hurt my tortoises and to see the effects (if any) can be noted as a result of my husbandry techniques.
 

glitch4200

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FLIR0180.jpg FLIR0179.jpg FLIR0182.jpg FLIR0181.jpg FLIR0184.jpg FLIR0183.jpg FLIR0186.jpg FLIR0185.jpg FLIR0188.jpg FLIR0187.jpg So i will start with Pebbles, since she was up first and I want to try and do this in order, so i can post all of them.. I apologize for such a picture heavy thread. I start with a just emerged Pebbles from her sleeping spot last night, the first pics are of her just getting under those lamps.
 

glitch4200

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I mean do you see it? Uneven heating? I doo.... Even with all my extra virgin coconut oil applications. All my applications were spread evenly throughout the entire shell. Soo its not like there is pools of oil where those hot spots are.. FLIR0216.jpg FLIR0215.jpg FLIR0218.jpg FLIR0217.jpg FLIR0220.jpg FLIR0219.jpg FLIR0222.jpg FLIR0221.jpg FLIR0224.jpg FLIR0223.jpg
 

glitch4200

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So i finally started pairing my times with the pictures. I would like to show you all these pictures within time frames. These first couple pairings are my tortoise pebbles when she was just first getting up. You can see her cute little head poking out, in set #2, #3 FLIR0164.jpg FLIR0163.jpg FLIR0166.jpg FLIR0165.jpg FLIR0166.jpg FLIR0167.jpg FLIR0172.jpg FLIR0171.jpg
 

glitch4200

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FLIR0180.jpg FLIR0179.jpg FLIR0182.jpg FLIR0181.jpg FLIR0182.jpg FLIR0181.jpg FLIR0184.jpg FLIR0183.jpg Lights were turned on at 8:25am and Pebbles finally emerged at 9:02am. I took these photos as soon as she emerged from her sleeping spot from above. These pairs are taken withing 12 minutes of first exposure to the basking bulbs. This all is in just 12 minutes, in order.
 

glitch4200

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FLIR0194.jpg FLIR0193.jpg FLIR0200.jpg FLIR0199.jpg FLIR0206.jpg FLIR0205.jpg This is where it becomes interesting, i begin to see the first localized "hot spot" appear. First pair.. Still within 12 minutes since beginning to bask. He finally turns to warm up his back end. NOW LOOK AT THAT YAWN!!
 

glitch4200

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After 45 minutes under the "unfiltered" bulbs... I begin to see more localized heating but the tortoise is slowly warming up...
FLIR0324.jpg FLIR0323.jpg
 

glitch4200

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SO finally Nibbles wakes up.... He woke up at 9:56am. I took this nice picture of him nice and cold from his nights sleep. First set is him completely buried under substrate. Then he finally emerges, but slowly.


FLIR0176.jpg FLIR0175.jpg FLIR0328.jpg FLIR0327.jpg FLIR0332.jpg FLIR0331.jpg FLIR0334.jpg FLIR0333.jpg
 

marginatawhisperer

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I have read that in the wild tortoises get plant oil on their bodies by passing through vegetation, and many species, also in dry climates, are "manipulating" moisture exposure by choosing where to go, under leaves, bushes or in burrows. The idea of applying plant oil in an indoor enclosure is therefore very good.
Whether it helps distribute heat evenly I cannot say, but the idea is sound. The pictures also show some very well to do tortoises. My compliments!
By the way: Does your house have a balcony on a second floor? It could give you an enclosure. I have the same problem with animals and criminals.
Regards from 60 degrees north
 

HLogic

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The picture with the heated grid like pattern on the tortoise above is what can happen with these lamps, these red lit areas are rich blood vessel areas that are heating up and vibrating as a result of the intense "unfiltred" IR-A. This does not happen in nature...

I have read that in the wild tortoises get plant oil on their bodies by passing through vegetation...

@glitch4200 - Where did you hear this does not happen in nature?

@marginatawhisperer - Where did you read that wild torts get plant oil on their bodies?

Both - just curious as I have not seen any literature (including the web) that makes these claims.

My observations of the FLIR images follows:

Something has changed between the grid pattern images and the most recent ones (recalibration, sensitivity adjustment, distance, focus, spectral filtering?).

What I see is rather rapid *surface* warming of the areas closest to the heat source, as expected, with an even more rapid heating of the darker pigmented regions of the same and proximal areas, as is also expected. A gradual increase in *surface* temps of the areas surrounding those closest to the heat source is then noted - due to irradiation and conductance from the already warmed areas.

Something that may not be as obvious is the difference between the surface heating of the carapace vs. the cooler *core* temperature as demonstrated by the temp/color of the extremities (head & forelimbs). I am reasonably sure this shows vascular shunting (search "shunting in tortoises", "intracardiac shunting" or "pulmonary shunting") which is used to direct blood flow to/from specific anatomical regions - usually pulmonary vs. systemic but also peripheral. The smaller masses of the head & forelimbs, when exposed to solar radiation would heat faster and thus provide a mechanism of more quickly warming. The same effect is less likely from a low wattage heat source in which the radiation drops markedly with slight increases in distance from the source vs. the infinitesimally small reduction in radiation a few inches greater distance makes with respect to the sun.

There are more observations but I feel they don't add to the conversation and/or have been covered previously.
 

marginatawhisperer

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Answer to HLogic:
I read it some years ago on a Danish website: marginata.dk,
The author is Otto H. Madsen. He is especially interested in European tortoises. I called him today and he confirmed it.
Where he got from I do not know, but I see the point, and agree. Not much oil of course, but seemingly enough.
He warns about oiling too much with the wrong oils, as it can lead to fungus growth in the scutes. Regarding coconut oil I do not know.
But I eat it with pleasure in my Food.
Personally I use a waterbased hand lotion from time to time on mine.
I recommend the website, also for general information.
Regards from here
 

glitch4200

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@glitch4200 - Where did you hear this does not happen in nature?


From what i have gathered, the sun which emits "filtered" IR-A comes through our water dense atmosphere and gently warms the tortoise who is basking in the natural open wild. This is what we want correct? The sun is god in this scenario by providing the "filtered" IR-A needed to gently and nicely warm the tortoise well. On the other hand we have indoor basking bulbs of all kinds.. This is needed for the indoor kept tortoise to maintain the appropriate temperatures needed for all areas of development and sustained living. We all know this. But. These bulbs emit "unfiltered" IR-A, this is very important and the catch. This "unfiltered" IR-A lacks the moisture underneath it to effectively create "filtered" IR-A. So to explain the idea of this, our atmosphere contains a very large quantity of water vapor. This water vapor is what is being absorbed by by the suns IR-A spectrum. This spectrum is water hungry. Absorbing all the water it can find. If there is not enough water present. The emission is "unfiltered". If there is a enough water present (our atmosphere) then it is "filtered".

Here is the thread explaining it way better then I can by someone who knows so much more than me.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/infrared-sunlight-vs-basking-lamps.84606/

So now we get to the point of this not being like nature.. The sun does not emit "unfiltered" IR-A,B, or C. It emits "filtered" IR-A. So now we have a big problem when you think about a tortoise basking day in and day out between 5-12 hours... Now couple this with the idea that all the water being taken from the lamps drastically lowers humidity levels under those lamps and surrounding enviornemt. Now think of a keeper failing to keep the humidity up atleast 50% or more, providing low soaking, and poor access to drinking water... (which i know no one condones here on this forum, but i can't say that is the case elsewhere.........*cough* facebook tortoise groups *cough*.). You have effectively taken all possible ways to hydrate a tortoise if this is the case... and are exposing them to harmful dehydrating lamps "unnatural" unlike to being in the wild. Can you not see the possibility of having SO many issues arise from cronic drhydration.. If counter measures are not sought after like soaking more often, providing better humidity and the best access to clean drinking water, then you have a problem. This is my opinion though.. :) A reason why i started all this... :)
 

glitch4200

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Both - just curious as I have not seen any literature (including the web) that makes these claims.

My observations of the FLIR images follows:

Something has changed between the grid pattern images and the most recent ones (recalibration, sensitivity adjustment, distance, focus, spectral filtering?).[/QUOTE]


Yes, those pictures were not mine. I got them from here. He also talks about dehydrating lamps as well .: POST #66

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/what-is-the-physiology-behind-pyramiding.83263/page-4
 
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