Tomato Plants and Sulcatas

[danielle]

I have 2 sulcatas that are just shy of 2 years. We moved them outside this past June. We have dedicated our entire yard to them. Everything I plant in the back yard is fair game and safe for them to eat ~ my garden included with the one exception of tomatoes. My question is will they just ignore the leaves of the tomato plants? My beds are raised but if the tomatoes grow like they did last year they were out of control and hung over the sides of the beds. Does anyone have tomato plants that their sulcatas can get to? As of right now I am in the mind frame of better safe than sorry unless I read otherwise.
Yes this is now garden time in Arizona!

 

[Jacqui]

I would not want to even give mine the chance to see if they are smart enough not to eat the leaves. That is one plant not to take chances with. The tomato fruit is okay, but NOT the leaves/stems.

 

[Baoh]

Have the leaves and stems actually been determined via study to be of significant toxicity to tortoises?

 

[ascott]

"There is some disagreement over the toxic principle in tomatoes: some say it is the alkaloid tomatine, while others disagree and say it is the glycoalkaloid solamine. Despite this disagreement the tomato does come from the same family as potatoes and deadly nightshade, and the leaves and unripe fruit are toxic and should never be fed. The ripe fruit has a high sugar content, low level of calcium and high phosphorus content with almost no fibre, so it is not nourishing and we do not recommend feeding it. Tortoises do find tomatoes tasty though, and the one situation in which it might be acceptable to feed is when it is used to administer medication."

--this is from www.thetortoisetable.org

 

[N2TORTS]

Fruits such as tomatoes, which are healthy and enjoyable for us, can actually pose a threat for our shelled’ buddies if the leaf/plant material is eaten in large quantities. The tomato plant is part of the Solanaceae plant family, which is toxic and includes potatoes, deadly nightshade, and horse nettle (referred to as wild tomato). The leafy and green portions of the tomato plants contain atropine, which slows the gut down. Hyoscyamine, also present in these plants, affects the nervous system. Hence, there is a decrease in saliva production, a decrease in the motility of the intestines and increased heart rate is also observed. Other clinical signs of indulging on plant include, inappetence ( lack of appetite) , severe gastrointestinal upset, diarrhea, drowsiness, confusion, behavioral change, weakness, dilated pupils, slowed heart rate. Although these symptoms will very with size of animal and how much has been eaten….but can be lethal to your tortoise.

JD~

 

[Kristina]

My opinion - it is ALWAYS better to be safe than sorry! I don't take risks with my tortoises, even calculated ones Go with your gut on this one!

 

[Baoh]

Is there any actual research on this matter as it pertains to tortoises?

 

[ascott]

....if you line up a row of tortoise and unleash a starving predator on them I am confident some will suffer but not die, some will absolutely die a horrible death and some may escape unharmed.....I however choose to keep mine out of such a draw....this I need no exact study to base my decision on but will use all available information to make a safe choice.....

 

[Baoh]

We have seen the results of mechanical damage, which is what a predator would inflict upon prey in such a case.

I am guessing from the responses I am reading that it has not actually been determined and is being stated without any direct evidence. In such a case, to want to be on the safe side and avoid feeding an item of unknown toxic impact to the species at hand is not an unreasonable choice. However, stating definitively that it is not okay, is toxic, or is otherwise harmful to this species seems to have no basis founded on, or determined by, evidence.

The only examination I could find relating any nightshade consumption to tortoises was the following for leopard tortoises:
----------------

Digestive parameters and water turnover of the leopard tortoise

Megan K. McMaster, Colleen T. Downs
School of Biological and Conservation Sciences, University of KwaZulu-Natal, Private Bag X01, Scottsville, Pietermaritzburg, 3209, South Africa

Received 13 February 2008; revised 9 June 2008; Accepted 10 June 2008. Available online 14 June 2008.
---------------

It only looked at digestion, energy balance, water balance, and related parameters, and the tomato portion pertained only to the fruit.

For those who also have access, the following is the link:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1095643308009975

The quick and short of it is that the animals adapted to differing diets.

There was no examination of toxicity that was relevant to the discussion at hand to say that the unripened fruit or non-fruit vegetative portions of the tomato plant is either beneficial or harmful.

 

[ascott]

All plants relating to the nightshade (Solanaceae) family contain solanine, a glycoalkaloid toxin found in, Potato, Tomato, Aubergine, Thorn Apple, Henbane and other Nightshade members with the ability to cause decreased normal bodily secretions, hallucinations, delirium, trembling, weakness and severe digestive upset, could possibly be fatal; so don’t allow any plants from the nightshade family near the tortoise enclosure.

Boah, "mechanical damage"? You missed my point entirely ...by point being this;

You have a series of events that have allowed us to determine that my scenario would be a crap shot for the tortoise...some will make it some won't.....I do not believe an exact study has ever been done about the exact number of tortoise that would survive in this scenario...

You have a family of plants derived from nightshade, which we do know are toxic, I am sure that there are plenty of studies on this particular plant family that will support that....with all of those studies a determination has been printed that tomato would not be an encouraged food....

Now, you as a tortoise keeper are left with the decision on what to do...I hope that you and I are simply in a bit of a tit for tat and that you will indeed not feed tomato to your tortoise....

I will not, nor do I feel compelled to continue in this fashion...I want what is best for all captive tortoise and I am sure you as well....

So, I happily retreat on this

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I'm with Angela and JD on this one. And this is not in the debatable section. They are many articles stating that leaves are toxic and that too many tomatoes are toxic. I don't feed my Sulcata or any of my tortoises fruit or most veggies. Tomatoes are bad for tortoises... why argue the point. The question has been asked and answered...

 

[Tom]

In answer to the original question, "will they just ignore the leaves of the tomato plants?" The answer is a great big MAYBE. In most situations tortoises seem to know what is good or bad for them and they don't eat the bad stuff. HOWEVER, I have personally witnessed mine attempting to eat some stuff that I know is toxic and/or just not good for them. The captive environment can sometimes either suppress or conquer natural instincts.

As many above said, better to be safe than sorry.

 

[ewam]

My tort will never take a bite of spinach so I thought he knew what wasn't good for him but I've also caught trying to bite rocks, cement, and dried up paint so I don't think that is true anymore.

 

[danielle]

Thanks.
A new tomato garden is in the process where my little dudes can't get to them.

 

[Len B]

"There is some disagreement over the toxic principle in tomatoes: some say it is the alkaloid tomatine, while others disagree and say it is the glycoalkaloid solamine. Despite this disagreement the tomato does come from the same family as potatoes and deadly nightshade, and the leaves and unripe fruit are toxic and should never be fed. The ripe fruit has a high sugar content, low level of calcium and high phosphorus content with almost no fibre, so it is not nourishing and we do not recommend feeding it. Tortoises do find tomatoes tasty though, and the one situation in which it might be acceptable to feed is when it is used to administer medication."

--this is from www.thetortoisetable.org

I went to thetortoisetable.org, and it does say that unripe tomatoes are toxic,I disagree, I have eaten fried green tomatoes for over 40 years and never had an ill effect. Len

 

[Claireabbo]

My tort will never take a bite of spinach so I thought he knew what wasn't good for him but I've also caught trying to bite rocks, cement, and dried up paint so I don't think that is true anymore.

hahah!! thats funny

 

[Yvonne G]

I've always wondered about the question, and Boah is right to have wanted to see any science on the subject. One thing that makes me wonder is tomato worms. Their whole diet is tomato leaves. I used to pick these large, juicy worms off my tomato plants and toss them to the ducks, who gobbled them up like candy. The ducks never got sick or died from it. So even though I've never fed tomato plants or leaves to my tortoises, I've always wondered about them being toxic...really.

 

[Nakia]

Quoting Len's post:
I went to thetortoisetable.org, and it does say that unripe tomatoes are toxic,I disagree, I have eaten fried green tomatoes for over 40 years and never had an ill effect. Len

My husband loves fried green tomatoes, I think they taste aweful!! Like you said Len, they have never given him any ill effects either. But then, he doesn't walk around with a shell on his back & if he doesn't take better care of his health, he will never live to be 100+ yrs. like my tortoises have potential to do. Therefore, since I have read more negative aspects on feeding tomatoes & the plants to torts than positive, I will leave them off my babies' menu.

There's just so many good, safe weeds & greens that can be planted or found naturally, there's just no reason for me to even consider such a controversial food item.

 

[Jacqui]

Thanks.
A new tomato garden is in the process where my little dudes can't get to them.

I think this is the wisest and safest course of action.

 

[Baoh]

All plants relating to the nightshade (Solanaceae) family contain solanine, a glycoalkaloid toxin found in, Potato, Tomato, Aubergine, Thorn Apple, Henbane and other Nightshade members with the ability to cause decreased normal bodily secretions, hallucinations, delirium, trembling, weakness and severe digestive upset, could possibly be fatal; so don’t allow any plants from the nightshade family near the tortoise enclosure.

Boah, "mechanical damage"? You missed my point entirely ...by point being this;

You have a series of events that have allowed us to determine that my scenario would be a crap shot for the tortoise...some will make it some won't.....I do not believe an exact study has ever been done about the exact number of tortoise that would survive in this scenario...

You have a family of plants derived from nightshade, which we do know are toxic, I am sure that there are plenty of studies on this particular plant family that will support that....with all of those studies a determination has been printed that tomato would not be an encouraged food....

Now, you as a tortoise keeper are left with the decision on what to do...I hope that you and I are simply in a bit of a tit for tat and that you will indeed not feed tomato to your tortoise....

I will not, nor do I feel compelled to continue in this fashion...I want what is best for all captive tortoise and I am sure you as well....

So, I happily retreat on this

The harm from a predator occurs via mechanical damage.

We do not *know* they are toxic to tortoises, which is my point.

---

I'm with Angela and JD on this one. And this is not in the debatable section. They are many articles stating that leaves are toxic and that too many tomatoes are toxic. I don't feed my Sulcata or any of my tortoises fruit or most veggies. Tomatoes are bad for tortoises... why argue the point. The question has been asked and answered...

Articles state anything the authors and editors wish them to. A statement is not self-evident. Debatable section or not, the question has received responses, but not answers, as we lack the data to know enough to answer with evidence and, therefore, genuine confidence beyond belief or feeling.