tortoise rammed...Size does matter ***Graphic Images***

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Zamric

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When I seperated WalkingRock and Rocky.... this is where it was headed! I stopped a vicious attack one day that had resulted in small cracks along the Skirt Scutes and the Main Scutes. I see now where it could have ended!

Thanks for the Graphic Lesson.... Hope it opens a few eyes!
 

bfmorris

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Angi said:
Why did he have feces and dirt packed in there?


Lucky the big male didn't gular him head on. Those injuries are often fatal.

I think this little guy's chances are excellent.
 

lushcious

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Yikes, poor tortoise! I hope the treatment goes well. Did you give him any anesthesia? How are you going to replace the missing part of the shell?
 

reptile_luvr

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This is so sad. I feel bad for the little guy, as well as his owner. I know that no owner wants to see their little ones injured this way. Thank you Doc for sharing this with me, it is very helpful. I have a young female Sulcata the same size as this guy and my husband has been nagging me to get another, however, I was undecided due to the upkeep, but after reading this I am not going to take on a second purely because I would hate to see either one injured. I hope for a speedy recovery for this little guy and hope that you will keep us updated! :tort:
 

[email protected]

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Thanks for posting this. Heartbreaking, but fascinating.

How does this damage happen? Is it ramming? Is there prying involved or plowing around? Is there biting and tearing?

Will this male see a full recovery with this kind of damage?

Thanks for any education on this.
 

Snapper925

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Thank you and thanks to the owner for this post!!
This is great info, I eventually wanted a sulcata herd but am having other thoughts now,
Keep us posted :)
 

froghaven5

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Wow. An interesting post and very educational. Thanks to you and the owners for posting pics. Hope he is doing well.
 

EricIvins

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It may look graphic, but Chelonians are well adapted for these types of injuries........I've seen and kept a few road hits that were literally in pieces ( 10x worse than this ) make a full recovery with very little intervention.......
 

exoticsdr

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I fully expect that he will make it, he will be coming in on Thursday for a recheck (and more pics)...I'm very interested on how it is going to look.
 

Nay

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I'll add my thanks for taking the time to show us.
Nay
 

Akronic

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those pics remind me of when i broke my fore arm and they installed titanium plates on both the radius and the ulna, but they could only sew up one half of my arm cuz the swelling was so bad. we had to wait like 2weeks of changing dressing 3x a day and it looked almost like the last pic.......minus the dirt and feces OFC haha. man that is a mad battle wound. glad i went w/ the Russians, ive seen the greeks ramming but nothing on that scale. good luck
 

wildak

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Have you ever used medical grade honey in those types of wounds to keep bacteria out and keep it moist ? I guess it works wonders in the right situations.
 

Baoh

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wildak said:
Have you ever used medical grade honey in those types of wounds to keep bacteria out and keep it moist ? I guess it works wonders in the right situations.

To speak to this, I just want to point out that the osmotic pressure will actually draw fluid from the animal to the honey, which will in turn lose water to its ambient environment if the concentration is lower (and it typically is unless soaking/raining/what-have-you), so providing peroxides and other benefits are of a greater role than keeping the wound moist.

I have also use it successfully, by the way, in rescue animals.



EricIvins said:
It may look graphic, but Chelonians are well adapted for these types of injuries........I've seen and kept a few road hits that were literally in pieces ( 10x worse than this ) make a full recovery with very little intervention.......

I have found a number of nearly flattened Hermann's in nature that healed despite severe crush injuries. I have found an adult female that only had rear legs, too, which was kind of interesting, although the way the tissue looked to me indicated lack of development rather than amputation in that case.
 

blackbird

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wildak said:
Have you ever used medical grade honey in those types of wounds to keep bacteria out and keep it moist ? I guess it works wonders in the right situations.

I was wondering about that too! Good to know it can be used..
 

exoticsdr

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Baoh said:
wildak said:
Have you ever used medical grade honey in those types of wounds to keep bacteria out and keep it moist ? I guess it works wonders in the right situations.

To speak to this, I just want to point out that the osmotic pressure will actually draw fluid from the animal to the honey, which will in turn lose water to its ambient environment if the concentration is lower (and it typically is unless soaking/raining/what-have-you), so providing peroxides and other benefits are of a greater role than keeping the wound moist.

I have also use it successfully, by the way, in rescue animals.



EricIvins said:
It may look graphic, but Chelonians are well adapted for these types of injuries........I've seen and kept a few road hits that were literally in pieces ( 10x worse than this ) make a full recovery with very little intervention.......

I have found a number of nearly flattened Hermann's in nature that healed despite severe crush injuries. I have found an adult female that only had rear legs, too, which was kind of interesting, although the way the tissue looked to me indicated lack of development rather than amputation in that case.



I chose not to use honey or other osmotic initially because of the exposed pleura and the danger of dehydration of that particular tissue, however after a nice bed of granulation tissue forms I may use it for any problem areas along the shell edges. I would also stay away from peroxides because of their strong oxidative properties for fear of damaging the pleura or slowing development of the new granulation bed.
 

Baoh

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exoticsdr said:
Baoh said:
wildak said:
Have you ever used medical grade honey in those types of wounds to keep bacteria out and keep it moist ? I guess it works wonders in the right situations.

To speak to this, I just want to point out that the osmotic pressure will actually draw fluid from the animal to the honey, which will in turn lose water to its ambient environment if the concentration is lower (and it typically is unless soaking/raining/what-have-you), so providing peroxides and other benefits are of a greater role than keeping the wound moist.

I have also use it successfully, by the way, in rescue animals.



EricIvins said:
It may look graphic, but Chelonians are well adapted for these types of injuries........I've seen and kept a few road hits that were literally in pieces ( 10x worse than this ) make a full recovery with very little intervention.......

I have found a number of nearly flattened Hermann's in nature that healed despite severe crush injuries. I have found an adult female that only had rear legs, too, which was kind of interesting, although the way the tissue looked to me indicated lack of development rather than amputation in that case.



I chose not to use honey or other osmotic initially because of the exposed pleura and the danger of dehydration of that particular tissue, however after a nice bed of granulation tissue forms I may use it for any problem areas along the shell edges. I would also stay away from peroxides because of their strong oxidative properties for fear of damaging the pleura or slowing development of the new granulation bed.



I would not use honey for this magnitude of injury, either. Also, the peroxides I referred to are inherently present in the honey. I am not talking about applying H2O2 solution or anything like that.

How long did the irrigation and cleaning process take you from start to finish?
 

exoticsdr

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Boah...don't look, but your chemical engineering is showing....hahaha. Of course, when you said peroxides, I assumed you meant hydrogen peroxide and not those naturally found in the honey (btw, didn't realize that bit of info)....thanks my friend. The cleaning didn't take very long, maybe 15 or 20 minutes....now just hoping that the owner does the follow-up exams that I want...not looking good, so far has missed both....first to an auto break-in and todays for an unknown reason....Oh well, you can lead a tortoise to water, but you can't make him drink. Doc
 

Baoh

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exoticsdr said:
Boah...don't look, but your chemical engineering is showing....hahaha. Of course, when you said peroxides, I assumed you meant hydrogen peroxide and not those naturally found in the honey (btw, didn't realize that bit of info)....thanks my friend. The cleaning didn't take very long, maybe 15 or 20 minutes....now just hoping that the owner does the follow-up exams that I want...not looking good, so far has missed both....first to an auto break-in and todays for an unknown reason....Oh well, you can lead a tortoise to water, but you can't make him drink. Doc

Heh. I appreciate the sharing of information in either or both directions, so thank you. That is a shame the follow-ups were skipped.
 
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