Tortoise Relapse

[Pesky Fly]

Howdy,

I was on here a year or so ago, but slowly lost touch. I own a young RedFoot tortoise named "Turds". He has some issues, but we are working hard to fix them up. I was a horrid owner to him, for the first few months I had him. I was feeding the wrong foods, I could not hold the humidity, and I did not even have a UV source for him. A excellent herper at a local pet shop set me right. I made a U-Turn in the way I care for the little guy, but the damage was done and Turds shows the beginning signs of pyramiding. I truly wish I had done better by the little guy, but I am out to correct the damage done. I was told that he is still young enough to reverse the pyramiding, and get him back on the right track. This is exactly what I plan on doing. He is about a year old, small (or I think he is), but he is now acting like he had a zest for life. Before the UV he was a zombie rock. If I may outline my current care schedule for him, for you to review, please point out any flaws you notice so I can correct them quickly.

Current-
He is currently in a 20 gal. long tank. (Small I know)
I feed him every other day, 4 tortoise pellets, and a fresh mix of veggies and fruits. The most common of which are, Butter Lettuce, cabbage, Bok Choy, most types of greens (Dandy, collard...etc..), few peppers, squash, strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, blackberries, mango, and a few others in the mix.
He is on Cyprus bedding, with a section of moss, and a shallow water bowl.
I have him under a UV light only, he never used the heat lamp and it dried him up very quickly no matter to wattage. He seems better without it. The house is kept about 78 F.
I mist him once daily, twice if he needs it. Humidity is still hard to keep up above 60%.

Future Plans-
We are building an outdoor enclosure in our garden. I am hoping to keep him out there 24/7 as the weather holds. I live in hot and humid Kentucky so I am hoping to keep him out there until early September. I am digging the fence a foot or so in to the ground to ensure he will not dig under it. I will have the roof covered 1/2 and 1/2 with solid wood and chicken wire. The sides will be treated wood. There will be a shallow "mud dish" and humid hide, as well as the entire area being watered daily.

Thank you,


Pesky Fly

 

[Laura]

Hi welcome back.
What kind of protien do you feed him?

 

[Pesky Fly]

Occasionaly I feed him the same meats that I feed my Blue Tongue Skink. Only about once a month, I will feed a little bit of chicken or other white meat. He never eats it. I have tried cat food as well but he wont eat it either.

 

[Itort]

What type of protein sources (meat) are you feeding your BT? I ask because my RFs will eat the same as my BTs. One thing that they both eat is what I call omnivore goop which is basically 1/2 fruit 1/4 animal protein 1/4 greens. You do what feed protein once a week. I'd also try worms.

 

[Pesky Fly]

I have tried to blend it all together, and Turds wont touch it. Wardo (The BTS) eats it like crazy, but Turds only looks at it. I buy only SilkWorms and some butterworms...way to big for little Turds...

 

[Itort]

I'm sorry , I ment earthworms. They will also eat slugs and pillbugs(sowbugs) when in outside enclosure as these are not real easy to handle indoors.

 

[Pesky Fly]

I can try them...if I can find them. He is moving out side in a week or so, he might be able to munch then.

 

[tortoisenerd]

Hi there! That outdoor enclosure sounds great. My first thought with the indoor enclosure is that it is too cool. What is the temperature range? I vote no cabbage or bok choy (the other greens sound fine; spring mix is another great option). What kind of pellets (brand, ingredients)? I agree to work on the protein source, larger habitat, and humidity. You can cover part of the enclosure to hold the humidity. Keep the substrate moist by adding water and mixing it up in addition to the misting. Best wishes.

 

[Chewbecca]

How old is your tortie again?

Go here and up to the top, click on "Diet". Find whichever age applies to yours, but check out the hatchling diet as it gives the staple greens to eat:
http://www.redfoots.com/redfoot.htm

Then go BACK to the homepage and click on "Enclosure".
They tell you EXACTLY how to keep your little guy set up inside.
That site has tried and TRUE ways to keep a healthy redfoot.
Go to: www.turtletary.com and check out Terry's way of doing things.
He has visual proof of what has worked for his redfoots (I bought my hatchling from him), and he knows his stuff. He tells you how to do EVERYTHING you need to do for a healthy redfoot.

Mist MORE than twice a day. Mist ON the carapace and gently on the head.
Do you provide a water bowl/soaking dish?

I don't believe pyramiding can EVER be reversed, but you can keep it from continuing/getting worse.

Since mine is still a hatchling, I have NO IDEA if he'll eat whatever protein I provide for him.

 

[tortoisenerd]

I agree-while you can't reverse pyramiding, you can prevent more from happening, and hopefully the smooth growth and the growing shell will help make the pyramiding present less noticeable.

 

[Crazy1]

Pesky Fly, Weclome back. Hopefully you are here to stay. You have gotten some good advice. When RF are first introduced to their protein (meat) sorce it take a little while for them to get the idea of eating it. Don't give up. I suggest you set you RF on Terry's meal plan (www.redfoots.com). It is a great plan, makes it easy and keeps them healthy.

 

[Pesky Fly]

I tried Terry's meal plan, and it really did not work for me, or my tort. He has no intrest in eating daily, he picks and chooses what to eat, and if there is nothing he likes in the mix...he wont touch it. As well as the fact that I use a pellet diet, which he does not like. I went by Terry's rules for about a month, and I ended up wasting 1/2 of the food I offered Turds. He just wont eat daily.
It is really not possible to mist more than twice or three times a day, for me. I mist when I wake up, before I go out, when I come home, and before I got to bed. I just count it as two as the times are not that far appart. I am in the process of planning to make a tortoise table, and for the hot humid Kentucky summer, Turds is moving to the attached garage. It does not get over 95% even on the hottest days. In the winter I will move him back inside. The outdoor enclosure should be done by next week. I am going to hook up a LOW wattage heat lamp, as if I go higher than 25 or so W it dries him up. Yes he has a waterbowl that he can use, to soak and drink. It is cleaned daily. His humidity is about 65% (I checked it often today).

Please keep the suggestions comming, I am making the changes as fast as I can!

 

[Chewbecca]

I tried Terry's meal plan, and it really did not work for me, or my tort. He has no intrest in eating daily, he picks and chooses what to eat, and if there is nothing he likes in the mix...he wont touch it. As well as the fact that I use a pellet diet, which he does not like. I went by Terry's rules for about a month, and I ended up wasting 1/2 of the food I offered Turds. He just wont eat daily.
It is really not possible to mist more than twice or three times a day, for me. I mist when I wake up, before I go out, when I come home, and before I got to bed. I just count it as two as the times are not that far appart. I am in the process of planning to make a tortoise table, and for the hot humid Kentucky summer, Turds is moving to the attached garage. It does not get over 95% even on the hottest days. In the winter I will move him back inside. The outdoor enclosure should be done by next week. I am going to hook up a LOW wattage heat lamp, as if I go higher than 25 or so W it dries him up. Yes he has a waterbowl that he can use, to soak and drink. It is cleaned daily. His humidity is about 65% (I checked it often today).

Please keep the suggestions comming, I am making the changes as fast as I can!

See how/if his appetite picks up once you move him into an outdoor or indoor enclosure that heats up to higher temps than 78 degrees.

Have you tried Terry's enclosure?
And I mean by keeping a lid on the enclosure?
That helps keep humidity up.
Here:
http://www.redfoots.com/emitter/color.htm


You're spraying him four times a day. And you're spraying when you can.
I don't know what else to suggest.
There isn't a magical solution.

Don't they sell a tortoise appetite stimulant that you can sprinkle onto food to help entice the tortoise to food?
Maybe try that?

I'm not sure.

 

[Pesky Fly]

No no no, when I used his diet, he had a heat bulb that emited small amounts of UV. I know I sound like a moron, but I wont use heat emitters. They scare me, I want to see when the device is on or off. I was told to stop using the heat and use only the UV, to help him want to eat. Right now in Kentucky we are getting 90 F days. I revamped his 20 gal. long today, added a humid hide, and live plants. I will see if that will help while we build the outdoor space. I hope to have it done this week or next. It will be large, part in my veggie garden and part in the lawn. I hope this works. And his pyrmaiding is really not that bad, I took him out today to look again and it did not look as bad as it had. I will try putting a heat lamp back on him, as soon as I can. However I worry about 2 lamps on the small surface of his tank screen, should they be ok?

 

[tortoisenerd]

Is he eating a good amount of food the every other day he does eat? I would keep offering food daily, a variety each time. It would worry me as an owner not to see my tort eating well. How is he doing on weight gain and growth? I personally would not recommend an appetite stimulant...sure doesn't sound like what they get in the wild. The more variety the better, and maybe something will entice him. I would also think a visit to the vet is in order to rule out any medical problems that could affect his appetite such as parasites. What is the temperature gradient in his enclosure? Not being warm enough will cause a tort to not want to eat as they cannot digest if their tummy is too cold. Just throwing some thoughts out there! I really don't know too much about Redfoots so I'll butt out about the humidity/enclosure. Best wishes.

 

[Pesky Fly]

Oh yes, when he eats he eats quite a lot! He will eat about every other day. I purchased him from theturtlesource.com so I doubt he has any medical issues. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. I feed a large variety, each week the food choice is switched up. All new veg, and fruit. Temp is about 80, the UV light gives a little bit of heat. (I used a temp gun)

Hey, I don't mind please feel free to throw all the info out you want! Every little bit helps!

 

[tortoisenerd]

Even from the best breeder or source I would never discount medical problems as being a possibility (some torts will have no symptoms with parasites for example). That's great that he's eating well at least some days though. As far as I know you would want the tmperature more like 85 deg, with areas warmer and cooler too. That could help increase his appetite, so maybe worth a shot?

 

[Chewbecca]

It's hugely debated, but it's possible the UV could be bothering him/making him uncomfortable since redfoots don't really need it...artificially, that is.

What kind of UV bulb are you using?

I'd be more afraid of a UV bulb than a heat emitter.

 

[Madkins007]

Hi, Peskyfly!

Here is the thing about Red-foots... they are a flexible species that has been kept by a lot of people on a lot of plans with a lot of theories. Most of the plans work OK, but there are often ways they can be approved. The plan the pet store guy put you on, for example, can be improved in several ways.

I'm surprised your tort does not eat every day. Usually when I see that the tort is either overfed (some of your comments suggest this may be happening), or too cool, or too hot. I would suggest that 78F is a bit cool for the warm side.

I can understand your reluctance to use heat emitters, but you are looking at the problem backwards. A ceramic emitter is usually always on. That means you regulate it by moving it in or away, and by choosing the right size for your needs. OR you can do what I did and get a thermostat so I can set it to a certain temp and it runs automatically.

You can do other things, if you want. A heat pad that is usually used under a tank can be attached to the end of the tank and heat that zone. To me, this allows even less control, though.

There are a lot of things we can discuss, such as the pros and cons of pellets and their potential impact on pyramiding, or ideas for overall healthier diets, etc.- but I find trying to discuss everything at once gets awkward.