Tortoise soft green poop

[herbiethehermanntortoise]

Herbie came home yesterday, he's a year old. He's pooped twice since coming home, one was brown and fairly firm but still a bit watery, this morning's is green and less solid (photo attached)

Is this likely to be just him adjusting to being home/possible change in diet or should I worry about a parasite?

I've fed him a dandelion leaf, some kale, strawberry leaves, dried marigolds and some mint since he's been home.

Any help or advice is hugely appreciated

 

[Tom]

Herbie came home yesterday, he's a year old. He's pooped twice since coming home, one was brown and fairly firm but still a bit watery, this morning's is green and less solid (photo attached)

Is this likely to be just him adjusting to being home/possible change in diet or should I worry about a parasite?

I've fed him a dandelion leaf, some kale, strawberry leaves, dried marigolds and some mint since he's been home.

Any help or advice is hugely appreciated

Hello and welcome:

What is Herbie? What size is Herbie? Came home from where?

An occasional soft poop is no big deal. Nothing to worry about. Soak him a few times per week to ensure good hydration.

You've been sold the typical wrong substrate. Whoever sold you that probably sold you a bunch of other wrong stuff too.

Read these for the current and correct care info. Questions are welcome:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[TammyJ]

Hi and welcome!

 

[herbiethehermanntortoise]

Hello and welcome:

What is Herbie? What size is Herbie? Came home from where?

An occasional soft poop is no big deal. Nothing to worry about. Soak him a few times per week to ensure good hydration.

You've been sold the typical wrong substrate. Whoever sold you that probably sold you a bunch of other wrong stuff too.

Read these for the current and correct care info. Questions are welcome:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Hiya, thank you so so much for your reply. That link is a lifesaver and very much appreciated

Herbie's a Hermann tortoise, about the size of the bottom of a standard mug and a year old. (Obviously we can't tell yet if he's a he or a she but he feels like a fella). My family got him from a local garden centre which has a specialist reptile department. As we've had pets from there before with no problems (not reptiles though) and he came with correct documentation we thought it was trustworthy, however we've definitely been sold incorrect supplies. Poor Herbie.

I did do lots of research before getting him but evidently from the wrong sorts of places. Good thing is I know better now and can adjust things accordingly so he's got the right setup and everything he needs: I've swapped his ramped bowls for plates that I've sunk into the substrate as a temporary solution, gonna get him some terracotta plates and new substrate as soon as possible and I've just given him a soak.

Other than that he seems to be healthy, he's not got any deformities and is rambling around plenty and having a good sunbathe under his UV lamp, I've been feeding him dandelions, geraniums and hibiscus petals today (a photos attached of him having some food).

The only other question I have is about his enclosure - we were sold a turtle table which is about 1m x 50cm and has a covered section on the left and a lamp on the right, it has one glass side and 3 wooden ones. Is this suitable or should we be looking at adjusting it? I've read that closed chamber enclosures are necessary for younger tortoises so was thinking I might need to make some adjustments.

Thank you again for all your help, it's so appreciated as I really want the best for my little guy

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello!
100x50cm is bare minimum for yearling. And soon he will need something more spacious. 2.5x1.2m is a recommended size for adult tortoises, however bigger is better. Yet, you can relax this requirement if you have space outdoors and will brumate (hibernate) him in winter.

As a quick "band aid" for the tortoise table you have, you may a get a portable greenhouse top and cover the whole table or put it on top (depends on greenhouse tent size). If the closed part has a lid - I would open it to maximize roaming space and just put an appropriate size hide.

For a larger indoors enclosures there are different cheaper options than buying a "reptile enclosure" or vivarium - like using raised garden beds or bookcases.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hello there! Welcome! Adorable little fella

As you’re already aware, some things do need changing, hopefully this info will be of use moving forward creating an appropriate set up

Care advice for these guys is painfully behind, fb pages, YouTube, pet stores, they’re all repeating the same outdated advice, this forum is made of people who have spent years finding the best ways to care for them that actually result in healthy tortoise.

I’m going to include some information below on how I’d personally tackle a starter set up/a way you can build a bigger size in the future, the types of equipment to use, how to maintain humidity, and a cost effective way for you to get a suitable sized enclosure, hopefully it helps inspire an idea for you

Basking light should be an incandescent floodlight(example attached) on a 12 hour timer.

Basking temperature directly under the floodlight should be 95-100f. The rest of the enclosure should be ranging 75-80 during the day.

You may also wish to add ambient lighting on the same timer, providing shady areas with hides and safe plants.

Then CHE/CHE’s(ceramic heat emitters) always on a thermostat, for night heat if your house drops below 60’s at night. They are a non light emitting bulb. Set the thermostat for a night temperature place the probe in their cooler end, plug the che into it and the thermostat into the mains, it’ll be plugged in 24/7 but will only turn on when the temperature drops. When in a cooler climate like the uk, you’ll probably need them

Any indoor Uv should be a t5 fluorescent tube, avoid the compact and coil uv bulbs, they don’t give out enough uv and can hurt the tortoises eyes. The uv can be on a 4 hour timer from noon. I’ve attached the brands to go for, the Arcadia proT5 kit 12% comes with the reflector fitting, the reptisun needs it buying separate.

With lighting always avoid anything labelled halogen or mercury vapour.

Large wide(not deep) domes will help project heat down, just don’t solely rely on the clamps, they’ve been known to fail, always hang securely.

For substrates, either coco coir, dampened and packed down by hand as a base, with a layer of orchid(fir not pine) bark or forest floor on top, or just the orchid bark/forest floor. Never use anything with sand mixed in, no top soils and no kinds of moss. The trouble with top soil is you don’t know what kind of plants have gone into it, they could be toxic. Sand and moss are impaction risks.

You want to aim to have the bottom layer of substrate damp, to do this pour lukewarm water into the corners, not loads but enough to dampen the entire bottom layer. To stop that top layer getting too dry/dusty, mix the substrate now n then, which also helps boosting humidity or give the top a spray. Check your monitors and substrate to do the pours as and when needed. I don’t recommend misters or foggers, they get the air too wet and cause respiratory problems. Spraying won’t last as long.

Humidity for young growing tortoises needs to be maintained around 80%+ all over 24/7, you’ll find that difficult to achieve with an open top, for the set up I’m recommending I’d get a greenhouse cover. Once the tortoise is older(3+) a cover won’t be needed.

To maintain humidity whilst the tortoise is younger a greenhouse style set up works well and provides more space, as an adult they are going to ideally need a minimum of an 8x4, the bigger you go the better, it’s ideal if you can build your own base to go as big as you can for the room you have. A 4x2 or 4x4 will last you until they’re a bit bigger

Don’t think they can get away with smaller if allowed to free roam, I’d highly discourage indoor free roams, being away from their heat source means they’re being exposed to temperatures that are too low quite often, smooth surfaces like laminate flooring will wreak absolute havoc on their hip joints over time.
There’s just numerous reasons it isn’t a good idea unfortunately, harmful floor cleaners, foreign objects being swallowed, getting stuck under things they shouldn’t like shelving or sofas, low temperatures, no uv, getting hit by doors, one member has mentioned they knew someone who’s tort got their head crushed in a door jam, flipping hazards, smooth services, the list goes on and is endless.
They feel most comfortable and safe in a space that best mimics their natural environment, so an appropriate sized enclosure is always the ultimate goal.

Too many places in the uk think we can stick them in a 6 footer and it’s fine, it really isn’t, they’d walk miles in the wild!

If you can’t find an exact fit for your base with the cover, then place it over like the one with the white base in the photo, I’d put lining down under the base and cover though to stop condensate getting on your floor.

When making your base, just make sure the material is safe, some use flower beds or just make their own, for both these options I’d line with cheap pond liner to protect the base, making sure the liner goes up the sides too and make sure those sides are deep enough to prevent escapes.

Some people even hang their lighting from the greenhouse frame!(if it feels sturdy enough) Simply wrap the wire round so it’s at the height you need(check with temp gun/put thermostat in, 18-21 inches for the Arcadia uv) then secure with cable ties&chains.

I’ve also included examples of stands people make/buy. You could throw some pvc covering over the stands if youre struggling for a topper, but again if you do that, I’d put lining down under the base to stop condensate.

For a water dish a shallow terracotta saucer is considered safest, they have grip in the event your tortoise flips themselves, most pet store options are a known hazard.

If going for this set up, allow up to a week for the materials to ‘off gas’ with the heat running, until there’s no smell, once odourless, it’s safe for use

Ignore whatever else is in these enclosures in the photos, they’re just to give you an idea

For the diet side of things, avoid fruits, You want to stick with leafy greens and weeds for these guys, perhaps you’ll find this link below useful, there’s SO many plants in the wildflowers section that grow great in our climate! maybe you could get some seeds offline and plant into organic soil(no fertilisers or chemicals) in a planter the tortoise doesn’t have access to, forage them as they growbe very wary foraging elsewhere, you can’t be sure there’s no chemicals and they’re toxic lookalikes so always double check.

The Tortoise Table - Home

The Tortoise Table plant database and resource site for Tortoise owners

www.thetortoisetable.org.uk

Hope all this helps! Any questions please ask! And feel free to double check purchases before buying! It’s so easy to get equipment mixed up

 

[Tom]

Hiya, thank you so so much for your reply. That link is a lifesaver and very much appreciated

Herbie's a Hermann tortoise, about the size of the bottom of a standard mug and a year old. (Obviously we can't tell yet if he's a he or a she but he feels like a fella). My family got him from a local garden centre which has a specialist reptile department. As we've had pets from there before with no problems (not reptiles though) and he came with correct documentation we thought it was trustworthy, however we've definitely been sold incorrect supplies. Poor Herbie.

I did do lots of research before getting him but evidently from the wrong sorts of places. Good thing is I know better now and can adjust things accordingly so he's got the right setup and everything he needs: I've swapped his ramped bowls for plates that I've sunk into the substrate as a temporary solution, gonna get him some terracotta plates and new substrate as soon as possible and I've just given him a soak.

Other than that he seems to be healthy, he's not got any deformities and is rambling around plenty and having a good sunbathe under his UV lamp, I've been feeding him dandelions, geraniums and hibiscus petals today (a photos attached of him having some food).

The only other question I have is about his enclosure - we were sold a turtle table which is about 1m x 50cm and has a covered section on the left and a lamp on the right, it has one glass side and 3 wooden ones. Is this suitable or should we be looking at adjusting it? I've read that closed chamber enclosures are necessary for younger tortoises so was thinking I might need to make some adjustments.

Thank you again for all your help, it's so appreciated as I really want the best for my little guy

You are welcome. Happy to help.

One immediate concern is your substrate. The pet shops over there all seem to sell that same dry, sandy soil substrate. In your picture, your little baby is eating a big mouthful of it with his flower petal. That can kill him. You need to remove that substrate ASAP and get him a bowl to eat out of. Sand or soil should not be used as tortoise substrate. Its explained in more detail in the care sheet I linked, but your picture made me feel a sense of urgency about pointing it out.

 

[herbiethehermanntortoise]

You are welcome. Happy to help.

One immediate concern is your substrate. The pet shops over there all seem to sell that same dry, sandy soil substrate. In your picture, your little baby is eating a big mouthful of it with his flower petal. That can kill him. You need to remove that substrate ASAP and get him a bowl to eat out of. Sand or soil should not be used as tortoise substrate. Its explained in more detail in the care sheet I linked, but your picture made me feel a sense of urgency about pointing it out

You are welcome. Happy to help.

One immediate concern is your substrate. The pet shops over there all seem to sell that same dry, sandy soil substrate. In your picture, your little baby is eating a big mouthful of it with his flower petal. That can kill him. You need to remove that substrate ASAP and get him a bowl to eat out of. Sand or soil should not be used as tortoise substrate. Its explained in more detail in the care sheet I linked, but your picture made me feel a sense of urgency about pointing it out.

Thank you, unfortunately I took that photo early this morning before I was aware of the issue - I'm heading out tomorrow morning as soon as the reptile shop opens to get him some orchid bark substrate.
Also he has a food bowl but he'd brought that petal over to the lamp to eat it there, not too sure why!

He's gone to sleep for now and I've been emptying and rinsing out his food and water bowls every few hours during the day today, I work from home so have been able to do this as often as needed.

Is there anything else I could put him in overnight to keep him safer? I'm really worried about him but don't want to do anything to make it worse. Would no substrate be better than the sandy substrate?

I'm really kicking myself for buying the substrate mix, I really didn't realise that it wouldn't be appropriate and the bag said it was suitable for tortoises - it's really bad that they're allowed to sell it as such where it's such a risk.

 

[Tom]

Thank you, unfortunately I took that photo early this morning before I was aware of the issue - I'm heading out tomorrow morning as soon as the reptile shop opens to get him some orchid bark substrate.
Also he has a food bowl but he'd brought that petal over to the lamp to eat it there, not too sure why!

He's gone to sleep for now and I've been emptying and rinsing out his food and water bowls every few hours during the day today, I work from home so have been able to do this as often as needed.

Is there anything else I could put him in overnight to keep him safer? I'm really worried about him but don't want to do anything to make it worse. Would no substrate be better than the sandy substrate?

I'm really kicking myself for buying the substrate mix, I really didn't realise that it wouldn't be appropriate and the bag said it was suitable for tortoises - it's really bad that they're allowed to sell it as such where it's such a risk.

The substrate won't hurt him over night. The problems comes when the sand gets in their eyes and on their food. Over time, the accidentally ingested sand can collet in their GI tract and cause a blockage.

 

[herbiethehermanntortoise]

An update on Herbie he's got coconut coir substrate at the moment (the shop I went to was sold out of for orchid bark and I wanted to get it sorted asap, so he's got coir for now and when I next change the substrate he'll get a top layer of orchid bark and bottom layer of coir. He's about 3" long at the moment and he unfortunately only has a 3.5'X2' enclosure, but I'm looking into upgrading him over the next couple of weeks to a bigger enclosure (most likely the planter idea that someone posted on here, a really good suggestion and thank you for being so thorough and thoughtful). I've also not been able to sort out a closed chamber enclosure just yet, but I've been giving him daily soaks, spraying down the substrate whenever it's looking dry, and I've put his water bowl under his lamp to help with humidity, and it'll be fixed over the next couple of weeks. He's eating good, I've been using the tortoise table website to check what he can have and his favourites so far are hibiscus flowers and dandelions. He's been super active and roaming around lots, climbing on his quartz rocks and sunbathing under his lamp!

I wanted to say thank you so much to everyone who's commented advice for being so supportive and helpful and for helping me find the right info to care for my little guy. <3

 

[herbiethehermanntortoise]

Hello there! Welcome! Adorable little fella

As you’re already aware, some things do need changing, hopefully this info will be of use moving forward creating an appropriate set up

Care advice for these guys is painfully behind, fb pages, YouTube, pet stores, they’re all repeating the same outdated advice, this forum is made of people who have spent years finding the best ways to care for them that actually result in healthy tortoise.

I’m going to include some information below on how I’d personally tackle a starter set up/a way you can build a bigger size in the future, the types of equipment to use, how to maintain humidity, and a cost effective way for you to get a suitable sized enclosure, hopefully it helps inspire an idea for you

Basking light should be an incandescent floodlight(example attached) on a 12 hour timer.

Basking temperature directly under the floodlight should be 95-100f. The rest of the enclosure should be ranging 75-80 during the day.

You may also wish to add ambient lighting on the same timer, providing shady areas with hides and safe plants.

Then CHE/CHE’s(ceramic heat emitters) always on a thermostat, for night heat if your house drops below 60’s at night. They are a non light emitting bulb. Set the thermostat for a night temperature place the probe in their cooler end, plug the che into it and the thermostat into the mains, it’ll be plugged in 24/7 but will only turn on when the temperature drops. When in a cooler climate like the uk, you’ll probably need them

Any indoor Uv should be a t5 fluorescent tube, avoid the compact and coil uv bulbs, they don’t give out enough uv and can hurt the tortoises eyes. The uv can be on a 4 hour timer from noon. I’ve attached the brands to go for, the Arcadia proT5 kit 12% comes with the reflector fitting, the reptisun needs it buying separate.

With lighting always avoid anything labelled halogen or mercury vapour.

Large wide(not deep) domes will help project heat down, just don’t solely rely on the clamps, they’ve been known to fail, always hang securely.

For substrates, either coco coir, dampened and packed down by hand as a base, with a layer of orchid(fir not pine) bark or forest floor on top, or just the orchid bark/forest floor. Never use anything with sand mixed in, no top soils and no kinds of moss. The trouble with top soil is you don’t know what kind of plants have gone into it, they could be toxic. Sand and moss are impaction risks.

You want to aim to have the bottom layer of substrate damp, to do this pour lukewarm water into the corners, not loads but enough to dampen the entire bottom layer. To stop that top layer getting too dry/dusty, mix the substrate now n then, which also helps boosting humidity or give the top a spray. Check your monitors and substrate to do the pours as and when needed. I don’t recommend misters or foggers, they get the air too wet and cause respiratory problems. Spraying won’t last as long.

Humidity for young growing tortoises needs to be maintained around 80%+ all over 24/7, you’ll find that difficult to achieve with an open top, for the set up I’m recommending I’d get a greenhouse cover. Once the tortoise is older(3+) a cover won’t be needed.

To maintain humidity whilst the tortoise is younger a greenhouse style set up works well and provides more space, as an adult they are going to ideally need a minimum of an 8x4, the bigger you go the better, it’s ideal if you can build your own base to go as big as you can for the room you have. A 4x2 or 4x4 will last you until they’re a bit bigger

Don’t think they can get away with smaller if allowed to free roam, I’d highly discourage indoor free roams, being away from their heat source means they’re being exposed to temperatures that are too low quite often, smooth surfaces like laminate flooring will wreak absolute havoc on their hip joints over time.
There’s just numerous reasons it isn’t a good idea unfortunately, harmful floor cleaners, foreign objects being swallowed, getting stuck under things they shouldn’t like shelving or sofas, low temperatures, no uv, getting hit by doors, one member has mentioned they knew someone who’s tort got their head crushed in a door jam, flipping hazards, smooth services, the list goes on and is endless.
They feel most comfortable and safe in a space that best mimics their natural environment, so an appropriate sized enclosure is always the ultimate goal.

Too many places in the uk think we can stick them in a 6 footer and it’s fine, it really isn’t, they’d walk miles in the wild!

If you can’t find an exact fit for your base with the cover, then place it over like the one with the white base in the photo, I’d put lining down under the base and cover though to stop condensate getting on your floor.

When making your base, just make sure the material is safe, some use flower beds or just make their own, for both these options I’d line with cheap pond liner to protect the base, making sure the liner goes up the sides too and make sure those sides are deep enough to prevent escapes.

Some people even hang their lighting from the greenhouse frame!(if it feels sturdy enough) Simply wrap the wire round so it’s at the height you need(check with temp gun/put thermostat in, 18-21 inches for the Arcadia uv) then secure with cable ties&chains.

I’ve also included examples of stands people make/buy. You could throw some pvc covering over the stands if youre struggling for a topper, but again if you do that, I’d put lining down under the base to stop condensate.

For a water dish a shallow terracotta saucer is considered safest, they have grip in the event your tortoise flips themselves, most pet store options are a known hazard.

If going for this set up, allow up to a week for the materials to ‘off gas’ with the heat running, until there’s no smell, once odourless, it’s safe for use

Ignore whatever else is in these enclosures in the photos, they’re just to give you an idea

For the diet side of things, avoid fruits, You want to stick with leafy greens and weeds for these guys, perhaps you’ll find this link below useful, there’s SO many plants in the wildflowers section that grow great in our climate! maybe you could get some seeds offline and plant into organic soil(no fertilisers or chemicals) in a planter the tortoise doesn’t have access to, forage them as they growbe very wary foraging elsewhere, you can’t be sure there’s no chemicals and they’re toxic lookalikes so always double check.

The Tortoise Table - Home

The Tortoise Table plant database and resource site for Tortoise owners

www.thetortoisetable.org.uk

Hope all this helps! Any questions please ask! And feel free to double check purchases before buying! It’s so easy to get equipment mixed up

Thank you so so much for this comment, I've had a thorough read and there's so much helpful stuff on here. The planter idea for the enclosure is genius and I'll definitely be doing that in the next couple of weeks <3