Transitioning Russians to indoors for winter

elf2hats

New Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2016
Messages
14
Location (City and/or State)
Front Range of Colorado
I recently adopted two female Russian tortoises (I know, not ideal to keep together...but I have a very large enclosure, and they don't interact at all). I live in the Colorado Front Range, where winter temperatures often go below 0 degrees Fahrenheit. I've talked to other tortoise owners in the area who hibernate their creatures either outside or inside.

The previous owner, however, tells me that these tortoises have never hibernated (at least not while he had them; he also insists that they had no problem living together). So I'm trying to make it possible for Poppy and Petunia to hibernate if they want to but also give them a good indoor environment if they don't hibernate. They don't seem to recognize the Mazuri Tortoise Diet as food, and eat only greens like romaine lettuce, dandelion greens, grape leaves, and mallow. ALSO, the previous owner has rescued many tortoises, and kept these two females with males. So he mentioned that there's a possibility that they could lay eggs.

The outdoor enclosure is 6' by 8' in area, and goes about 2.5' deep. The top 6-8 inches is coco coir, under which is about 2' of composted soil. They bask in the sun for brief periods, but seem to like burrowing into the corners or sides, or into the submerged clay pots that serve as their hide houses. On weekends, I take them out of the enclosure to wander around the yard and garden, where they seem to enjoy exploring during warm afternoons.

Night-time temps outdoors are currently going to <40 degrees F, and I can see that they are super sluggish in the morning. So I built an indoor tortoise table (see photo), 4' x 4' with individual digging tubs, separated by a divider so that they can co-exist separately during the winter (leaving each with a 2' x 4' section). When night-time temps started getting cold, I started bringing them indoors overnight, but am putting them back outside to wander during the day when temps are 75-85 degrees (when they are pretty curious and exploratory).

Here are the oddities between the two:

A. The more dominant and adventurous one (Poppy) eats voraciously. I'm pretty sure she'd be physically okay to hibernate if she chooses to do so, but I'd still prefer to keep her in the indoor enclosure just in case it gets too cold outside. She is super exploratory and seems more social (or at least more tolerant of interaction).

B. The more shy of the two (Petunia) disappeared underground for a full week in her indoor enclosure (about 3 weeks after I adopted her). She has NOT been eating a lot, so I'm concerned that she might not be ready to hibernate. I poked at her a couple times and was reassured when she jerked in response. Then she re-surfaced today! So I took her outside for a long exploratory venture in the yard for a few hours. She's now basking under the MVB sunlamp. Was this aestivation? Could she be pregnant? How would I know?

Questions:
  1. Why would Petunia remain underground for many, many days at a time without coming out for food or water?
  2. Is it too early to bring them inside if we're not yet getting to freezing temps?
 

Attachments

  • Outdoor Habitat.jpg
    Outdoor Habitat.jpg
    4.2 MB · Views: 19
  • tortoise table with Poppy.jpg
    3.6 MB · Views: 20

wellington

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
49,660
Location (City and/or State)
Chicago, Illinois, USA
I don't hibernate my Russian. However, from what I have read and seen on here, it's not as simple as you just letting them stay out where it's cold and them choosing what to do. I believe you need to choose one or the other. If you haven't owned them for a year, then you should not hibernate them this year anyway.
hopefully someone that does hibernate their Russian will chime in
 

tglazie

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
631
Location (City and/or State)
San Antonio, TX
I currently keep marginated tortoises, so my expertise pertains to that species primarily. However, I have kept Russians in the past, and if I were in your position, I would bring them indoors during chillier weather. To me, outdoors overnight in the forties is pushing it. It just dipped below sixty for the first time here in South Texas, and I've been pulling all my tortoises indoors during the evening, only to put them out in the morning when the temp rises to sixty five with the sun shining. They emerge from a reptile room where the night temp is around seventy five and the humidity close to eighty percent, so this is a bit of a drop in temp for them come morning, but this drop in temp doesn't last very long, as the temps are near eighty by ten a.m. As the days grow shorter and the weather grows cooler, I keep the animals indoors more and more, especially the babies who don't brumate. The adults I continue to allow outdoors during the day. Inevitably, the begin slowing down, but I keep the nights reasonably warm leading up to brumation to ensure that they are able to empty the contents of their guts before going into the cold. Around here, generally, the nights get consistently cold around early November, and at that point, I just leave the tortoises out for a few days, ensuring they retire to their insulated shelters, ensuring that their temps remain in the low sixties to upper fifties. Once a cool night comes along after the third or forth day, I then transfer the tortoises to the refrigeration unit set for forty to forty five degrees.

But I digress. In your case, I would do everything possible to keep the tortoises at spring time temperatures (ninety five to one hundred five basking hotspot, seventy degree cool side). Make sure the day/night cycle allows for a fourteen hour/ten hour balance. Soak the tortoises frequently in lukewarm water, at least three times per week. I don't know how the winter air is in Colorado, but here in South Texas, it gets pretty dry. I try to combat this by humidifying my reptile room with a heated stock tank that houses my pink bellied sidenecks, but I realize this isn't a feasible option for everyone. If there's one thing I've noticed about Russians, it is that they are more sensitive to dampness than most other Testudo. Greeks, Marginateds, and Hermanns are all relatively tolerant of damp/rainy conditions, but Russians are definitely not. Humidity isn't a problem for them. Regular exposure to damp soil is a serious issue. It is one of the reasons I've not bred this species here in South Texas, but I'm also a lazy person who probably hasn't put the same level of thought into keeping Russians as I have to keeping Marginated torts, so there's that. But once again, I digress. Bottom line, keep 'em awake. Once you know them better and you're more confident in their ability to withstand the process of winter torpor, make a go of it in a controlled environment. But otherwise, don't take the chance on the rookies. You don't know the make of the metal as of yet.

Oh yes, and as for the eggs, Russians, if I recall correctly, generally lay in the spring. However, tortoises really can lay eggs anytime, so it is always a good idea to supply adult females with the means to lay should they need it. My marginated females generally do the bulk of their laying in the spring and early summer, though I have had them lay in the late autumn (I have never had one of these eggs turn out to be fertile, but this isn't a hard and fast rule, given that certain tortoises just produce constantly; run a forum search for Chris Leone's marginated tortoise "The Egg Machine," a tortoise that is the very definition of a prolific egg layer). Provide a good amount of soil depth in as many spaces as you can muster to ensure that your female Russian is able to lay. Also keep in mind that tortoises don't have to be mated to carry eggs. If the lady's got to lay an egg, the lady's going to lay an egg. It is up to us to ensure she can do it as comfortably and trouble free as possible.

T.G.
 

JoesMum

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
21,606
Location (City and/or State)
Kent, South East England
Here are the oddities between the two:

A. The more dominant and adventurous one (Poppy) eats voraciously. I'm pretty sure she'd be physically okay to hibernate if she chooses to do so, but I'd still prefer to keep her in the indoor enclosure just in case it gets too cold outside. She is super exploratory and seems more social (or at least more tolerant of interaction).

B. The more shy of the two (Petunia) disappeared underground for a full week in her indoor enclosure (about 3 weeks after I adopted her). She has NOT been eating a lot, so I'm concerned that she might not be ready to hibernate. I poked at her a couple times and was reassured when she jerked in response. Then she re-surfaced today!
These two are together. The more dominant eats and the more shy hides away and doesn't eat.

You have a bullying problem. These two must be kept entirely separately.

Do you weigh your torts regularly? You should do. How else will you know if your tort is heavy enough for its size? Weight loss is a sign of so many problems. If you choose to hibernate, weighing throughout hibernation as part of the monitoring is necessary too.


Questions:
  1. Why would Petunia remain underground for many, many days at a time without coming out for food or water?

  1. The days are shortening and the temperatures dropping and many torts seem to have a switch that says it's time to hibernate.

    However, the behaviour you describe also suggests there's a bullying problem going on.

    [*]Is it too early to bring them inside if we're not yet getting to freezing temps?
If nights are dropping to the 40s then yes bringing them in so they don't get too chilled is good. @Tom recommends a minimum overnight temperature of 65F for Russians.

You may find this helpful regarding keeping torts outdoors in a colder climate.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/outdoor-accommodation-in-a-colder-uk-climate.140866/

It is usually recommended that you don't hibernate torts in the first year of owning them.

If you choose not to, you are going to need two separate indoor enclosures.
 

elf2hats

New Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2016
Messages
14
Location (City and/or State)
Front Range of Colorado
Sorry for the delayed response -- you both gave me a lot of good information. I've continued to move them outdoors / indoors as they seem to demand (daytime temperatures are in the high 70s). They are completely separated, except if they encounter each other during explorations in the yard (but it seems like they really stay away from each other).
  1. Petunia (the shy one) has become more adventurous when roaming around the yard. She burrowed under some mulch two days ago and seemed very still, so I brought her to the indoor enclosure (where she is physically separated from the other), and she stayed burrowed for almost two days. She weighs 4.7 lbs and has a shell size of ~6" L x 5" W. She seems content to stay in her indoor enclosure most of the time, but still doesn't eat a lot.

  2. Poppy (the dominant one) remains super energetic and wants to range far and wide, and tries to escape from any enclosure however large or small. There seems to be no boundary on her range (other than the fence), but she marches through the gate if I open it, and is frequently on the move during the day. I keep her alone in the 6' x 8' outdoor enclosure during the day, where it seems like she is more sedentary (bored?). She still eats voraciously. She weighs 11.1 lbs, and has a shell size of ~6" L x 5" W (same shell size as Petunia, but more than twice as heavy).
I found the information on brumation very interesting. I'll keep watching and learning their habits! I'm going to start adding more features to their indoor enclosure in an attempt to satisfy their need for exploration and curiosity.
 

JoesMum

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
21,606
Location (City and/or State)
Kent, South East England
With Petunia being so light, don't give her any choices. Haul her out every morning and give her a good soak and then offer her food.

A soak every morning won't harm Poppy either.

I'd expect activity levels to drop off now the days are shorter. Make sure the lights are bright and on for 14 hours and the temperatures are correct. Give them growing plants to browse on (a tray of supermarket living lettuce perhaps) and make sure they start the day early enough.
 

New Posts

Top