trying to save friend's tortoise (updated 8/14)

[ascott]

RE: Need help with torts eyes

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752624

I have heard of folks using this product on the eye as well as in their food offerings to give a short term boost of vitamin a (again, not as a permanent supplement but as an aid to help your tort get a boost of it to aid in the eye issue)....

I know that a forum member here used vitamin a turtle drops to get his russian jump started out of brumation when they came out with swollen puffy eyes,.....

 

[lynnedit]

Need help with torts eyes

Whoo hoo

 

[Rramagge]

Need help with torts eyes

Lynnedit lol

Nd will have a look thanx

 

[AnnV]

Re: Need help with torts eyes

If you have some general antibiotic ointment around the house, you can use that until you get the terramycin. It is the same as the more expensive eye ointment just thicker petroleum base. You can get terramycin through most online pet supplies or even Ebay. It costs around $15 US. Once his eyes open, you would need the eye ointment becausevyou can't really dab the thick stuff in the eye.
The very tiniest amount of a petroleum based ointment will do. Since he can't open his eyes, anyway, I would just take a folded tissue slightly dampened with the abx ointment and barely touch the tissue to the eyelids. Just dab it lightly. It kind of spreads on contract.
Poor guy. I hope you can keep him. But if not, please make up a list of needed supplies. They may not bother otherwise, or forget.
Have you tried feeding him normal fresh foods yet? Sounds like he is ready. I would chop it up for him so he doesn't have to chase and struggle with whole pieces.
You are his savior!

Ann from CT

 

[Rramagge]

Need help with torts eyes

Will try get that stuff not sure if we got anything in the house will ask mum tho.
They have asked me to give them the sort of price it will b and then they will decide if they can get it all but they have told me to go ahead with lights nd stuff like that. The gran is lovely I have know her since really young nd she didn't think they should have got him in the first place.
They meant no harm but just didn't know what they doing nd got the wrong advice.
They r nice people but just need being told what to do nd going to write what need being done. If its to much for them I will welcome him/her (sure it's female but they said male) into the family
I may have to persuade dad tho lol

 

[ILoveTortoises2]

RE: Need help with torts eyes

Yeah you need to keep this poor tortoise. He is way better in your care then their care. How sad. I would report animal abuse if I were you. I would NOT give them the tortoise back either and if they call the cops show the cops ALL the things you had to do to get him back to good health and your still trying get him to 100% Keep up the good work hun.

 

[lynnedit]

RE: Need help with torts eyes

I've used the Zoomed drops on a tortoise who was previously in bad conditions with puffy eyes. But this tortoise was able to eat, not as bad off as this tortoise.

I agree about using a general antibiotic ointment, that and the saline rinse. Trying to keep expenses down for you, given you are taking on the care of this tortoise w/o knowing if you get to keep it.

Mainly I believe that he needs hydration and nutrition. Hopefully he will start nibbling soon: you might try offering him some chopped greens (might have to hold them up to his nose), prior to the next syringe feeding. Once he takes those, you can sprinkle a little Nutrabol on them.

 

[johnsonnboswell]

Need help with torts eyes

Maybe you can find some flowers to feed him. Rose of Sharon is good & may be in bloom where you live. Mine eat fallen blooms, so maybe you can gather some from neighbors if you know they don't spray.

 

[Rramagge]

Need help with torts eyes

Rex can't eat for himself at the mo he has to have liquid supplement stuff we do try giving him flowers and we have tried cucumber coz although its not the best food it's soft and the vet said to try the softest things first

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Lynnedit I will try that thnx

 

[AnnV]

Re: Need help with torts eyes

Yes, mine will go for cukes every time. And cukes are anti inflammatory, so if he will eat them, I say go for it.

Ann from CT

 

[Rramagge]

Need help with torts eyes

Ok bad news guys thought u would all like to know as u have been helping me out so much.
Mum called a vet that works at a zoo he is an amazing reptile vet and we explained everything that's going on with Rex. He said unfortunately there is no going back he has (something) herpes I can't remember the first bit.
He said the reason he is becoming more feisty and like he is getting better is actually coz he is getting worse, his body and insides have had enough and can't go on much longer.
He said we need to get him back to the owners ASAP as could pass it to mine. Going to completely disinfect everything with f10 as he has advised.
He said that the owners can have him kept in a vet nd they will try to keep him alive but the chances are v slim otherwise it's a case of them keeping him till he passes away

I tried my best but there is nothing more I can do

 

[lynnedit]

RE: Need help with torts eyes

I am amazed that the Vet can make the diagnosis by phone. Wouldn't they need cultures?

In any case, you made an effort. Please talk with his owners so that they care for him and take him to a reptile vet to confirm this.

 

[Rramagge]

Rex to unwell

Hi for anyone that has been following and helping me out with my friends ill horsefield tortoise Rex I have sad news. We have spoken to two vets today and they both have said he has herpes.
They have told us we need to give him back to owners as soon as pos coz we don't want it getting to my tort.
They have given two options
1.pay hundreds of pounds to have him sent to a specialist vet and they try to look after him but he has a v slim chance of surviving
2.he is given an overdose of ketamine (I think it's that drug) and he is put down.

It is completely up to my friends cousins family to make the deduction but I think they are going to go with putting him down.

Dad has just left to take him back we tried our best and I hope I did everything that I could have done to keep him at least more comfortable.

The owners will prob talk to the vet tomorrow but I will defo make sure they keep the heat on him at the mo to keep him as comfortable as possible. I have sent him back with the lights I was using and depending on what their decision is I will get them back whenever they don't need them anymore.

Sorry it's such a long post but really sad and just wanted everyone that has helped me to know what's going on.

Thanx for all your support
Becks

 

[theelectraco]

Need help with torts eyes

I am amazed that the Vet can make the diagnosis by phone. Wouldn't they need cultures?

In any case, you made an effort. Please talk with his owners so that they care for him and take him to a reptile vet to confirm this.

I think mr. reptile expert vet is no expert on tortoises. Herpes? Not saying its impossible but I haven't heard of any tortoises having herpes since being on the forums.


0.1.0 Dachshund
0.0.1 Redfoot
1.0.0 Greek

 

[theelectraco]

Rex to unwell

What were the symptoms of the tortoise and what were you guys doing as treatment?


0.1.0 Dachshund
0.0.1 Redfoot
1.0.0 Greek

 

[Rramagge]

Rex to unwell

If u look back at old posts I have done you can see its long to explain

 

[luvpetz27]

I have never heard of a tortoise having Herpes!! The STD herpes?
Has anyone heard of such a thing?

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I just did some research and tortoises can get herpes. It is not the same as human herpes tho. This is very sad. I am so sorry. You did everything u could.

 

[Rramagge]

Thanx I tried so hard to save him but they had had him in the wrong conditions for way 2 long

 

[Jlant85]

Holy **** I fell off the wagon for a second and hasn't been on the forum in a while. The hell happened?

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Lol so sorry too lazy to read on my phone.

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God Rex looks horrid. Pure sign of neglect. Did you talk to the family of that tort? I swear I wouldn't even give them back! Not to get you in any trouble but explain to them the situation. And if they question you, show them the vet bills! I just attempted a rescue myself. A cherry head but I was too late also. So sad. Poor gal had septic.

 

[pepsiandjac]

I found this about herpes,


Herpes Virus Infections in Pet Trade Tortoises - A Warning

Herpes is an extremely serious, usually fatal disease in tortoises. It should not be confused with herpes-virus infection in humans, which is a relatively mild condition. In chelonia, herpes-virus infection can cause massive lesions, swelling, respiratory distress, hepatitis and subsequent death. Affected animals may also suffer from concurrent fungal, bacterial and protozoan infections, presumably as a result of a compromised immune system. There is no effective treatment at present. Mortality once advanced symptoms appear is typically 100%.

This disease is contagious. A single affected animal can infect others that come into contact with it. Direct contact involving shared feeding, or contact with an affected animal’s bodily fluids or excretions is particularly dangerous. Such situations, this disease can spread rapidly through an entire tortoise collection and there are many reports in the veterinary literature that support the view that should that occur, 100% mortality can be expected (see below). Certainly, in all the cases we have seen, there have been no long-term survivors once advanced symptoms commence.

There are a number of points which at present remain unclear.

The first is the ‘incubation’ time from infection to the time when first symptoms appear. There is evidence that this may be measured in years. In one case, the tortoise did not develop serious symptoms for 10 years following exposure. Most cases, however, do develop very much more rapidly. Throughout this period the infected animal can be shedding virus that can in turn infect others. Such animals may display no outward sign that they are infected.

The second question to which at present we do not have an answer is whether the Herpesvirus detected is primary, or is itself secondary to an as yet unidentified causal organism. Several different viral pathogens have been identified as possible agents.

The most important thing that keepers can do is to maintain strict quarantine of all existing stock. On no account introduce other animals of unknown origins, and especially animals of trade origin. Because of the way in which trade animals are both exposed to multiple contacts with other tortoises, and are subject to high levels of stress, these tortoises are exceptionally high risk. Unfortunately, six or even eighteen months quarantine is completely inadequate when confronting a viral disease of this nature. The only effective solution is not to allow contact on a permanent basis. Feeding together, fighting or mating are highly effective routes for transmission.

Good hygeine measures are also essential. Wash hands thoroughly between handling tortoises. Do not share feeding utensils. Avoid spreading particles from one pen or enclosure to another. Wear disposable latex gloves when handling sick tortoises. Dilute bleach is an effective disinfecting agent for utensils, etc.

It should be noted that herpes has now been diagnosed in tortoises purchased from online dealers in the UK. We would strongly recommend that you do not buy such imports as they are at extremely high risk of being carriers of this devastating disease. If you do buy them please see the FAQ below for recommended handling procedures.

Do ensure that you obtain a written statement of the origins of any animals that you do purchase in advance (import or UK captive-bred) as knowing the origins of an animal is vital to forming an accurate risk assessment. We would not advise relying upon verbal assurances. While some sources are honest, others are not, and may present wild-caught imports as captive-bred in this country. If someone is reluctant to provide a written assurance of origin you should treat this with suspicion. An honest breeder or dealer will have no problem with such a request.


Symptoms in the tortoise recently diagnosed included severe lesions with blisters, diphteresis of the tongue and pharynx, oedema, and puffy eyes. The tortoise did not eat voluntarily since it was purchased. Ultimately, euthanasia was advised, but death from the infection ocurred first.



FAQ

We have added this Frequently Asked Questions section to deal with some of the misinformation on this topic circulating on the internet.

Q. Is it true that the Tortoise Trust is claiming that there is a Herpes epidemic among imported tortoises?

A. No. Absolutely not. What we have actually said - repeatedly - is that such animals should be regarded as "high risk". The reasons for this are fairly obvious when you consider the number of animals involved in these imports, their inevitable close contact with each other during holding and transit, the levels of stress they are subjected to (stress has been suggested as an agravating factor in chelonian herpes), and the difficulty of establishing and tracing any contacts. With any contagious or infectious disease these factors inevitably amplify risk.

Q. Is it appropriate to warn of such a danger on the basis of only a few suspected or confirmed cases?

Yes. Firstly, for a tortoise to manifest with advanced symptoms and die within a few weeks of purchase it is beyond any doubt whatsoever that that animal has been actively shedding infective live virus particles in huge numbers for months. Any other tortoise that contacts those particles is highly likely to have acquired the disease. The "incubation time", from first infection to first symptoms appearing can be very extended: months or even years. Throughout that time, though appearing outwardly healthy, those animals themelves shed live virus and are highly contagious. This tends to create a false sense of security for keepers.

Dealer's and shipper's premises are not geared to disease control and
prevention. Large numbers of animals are in very close proximity and even physical contact. As such, they are a very effective amplification mechanism for infectious and contagious diseases. You only need one animal shedding virus particles in that environment to infect hundreds or even thousands. That is why even a single case is important and should not be underestimated or dismissed.

Q. Should I be worried?

A. We would prefer to say that you should be concerned. The wisest course of action is to assume the worst and hope for the best. Take extra precautions and be particularly careful of "holiday homing", tortoise meetings where animals are present, breeding loans, etc.

Q. Can this affect humans? Am I in any danger myself?

A. There is no evidence to suggest that at all.

Q. Does it just affect Russian tortoises?

A. No. It has been recorded in many species. See list of references. It can also "jump the species barrier" between different tortoises.

Q. What would happen if this did get into my collection of tortoises?

A. We can only refer you to an actual case history reported by one of our members and subsequently reported in the veterinary literature. The consequences are extremely serious and far-reaching. That is why we take such a strong stand on this subject. We have also seen this ourselves at first hand. To those who allege that the Tortoise Trust is "scaremongering" on this topic, we simply urge you to read the above.

Q. Is this new, or has this happened before?

A. The first recorded cases date back more than 20 years. In fact, as long ago as 1989 the Tortoise Trust was the first organisation in the world to specifically highlight the potential importance of viral diseases to tortoise keepers and to issue specific guidelines to avoid cross infection. We were also the first organisation to highlight the dangers of mixing different species. So, this is not "new". The threat has been there for some time and outbreaks have been reported from all over the world, including Japan, the US, South Africa and throughout Europe (see the list of references below for some specific examples). What is relatively new is the vast surge in imports of questionable origins and in such a situation, the danger of wider disemination of such diseases increases exponentially. With reduced animal movements, the risk decreases.

Q. Can this travel through the air?

A. Not directly. It is contagious rather than infectious. What that means is that some form of physical contact or transfer is required. In the latter case, faecal material, or contaminated feeding equipment, or transfer of substrate should be regarded as a possible way to spread the disease. Precautions to eliminate this possibility should be undertaken. We have some practical suggestions written by a qualified microbiologist on the veterinary section of this website.

Q. Is it true that only tortoises from dealer's might be affected? What about rescue centres? What about animals from UK breeders?

There is some element of risk with all tortoises, from any source. It is only the degree of risk that varies. At the lowest end would be a single tortoise that has been in isolation for very many years without ever being mixed with others. For example, a 'pet tortoise' obtained 30 years ago and kept by one owner. The risk in a case like that is absolutely minimal. Of very low risk would be animals from an enthusiast who has kept a closed group for many years and who has never mixed species or allowed any form of contact with other tortoises. In the low-medium risk category would be animals from a careful genuine breeder who has very good quarantine and hygeine practices and who does not mix species or introduce new breeding stock. In the medium risk category we could place enthusiasts with larger collections and less careful breeders . Well managed rescue centres must also be considered medium risk as it is not always possible to know the history of all the animals involved. The more animals that pass though a location, the higher the risk. That would increase to very high risk if the recue centre has poor hygeine standards or mixes different species. Enthusiasts who attend meetings with tortoises or who constantly add new animals to their groups are also placing themselves in the very high risk group. It should be noted that by adopting good practices and by being very careful you not only massively reduce the danger of introducing diseases such as herpes-virus, you also massively reduce the risk of many other diseases too, such as 'Runny Nose Syndrome' and bacterial stomatitis, shell-rot, etc.

Q. What should I do if I already have, or plan on getting, tortoises from a high-risk source?

A. It would be best to establish these as a completely separate, self-contained group and to take adequate steps to prevent any cross-contamination taking place with other tortoises. Ideally, they should be in pens physically as far removed as possible from your other animals. Do not share vivariums or other accessories and do not walk between pens without changing or sterlising footwear. See the article on disease prevention for guidelines on how to reduce the risk of any disease that might be present from spreading.

Q. If I breed from a high risk tortoise or group, will the hatchlings be safe or will they also present a threat?

A. We simply do not know the answer to that at present. More research is required.

Q. Are you saying that people should not ever buy imported tortoises?

A. We are merely pointing out that they are in a very high risk group. If you do buy them, and permanently quarantine them in accordance with the advice above then you should be reasonably safe even if the worst happens as any outbreak will be restructed to that single, isolated group. If you have mixed them, or allowed cross-contamination with other tortoises in your collection, the consequences will of course be much worse.

In summary, there is no reason for panic at all. Simply take extra precautions by being ultra-careful in terms of handwashing and general hygeine, and do not introduce high risk animals into your collection. A 'closed' collection is by far the safest course of action.