Uncontrollable shaking of tortoise's hind leg

Maryalice

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2021
Messages
64
Location (City and/or State)
Pasig City, Metro Manila, Philippinex
Hi tort carers. My 4-month old sulcata shook his left hind leg while soaking today. I thought it was because the water may be too hot, so I immediately took him out of the water. The shaking stopped, then resumed after a few seconds, then stopped again. This shaking then stopping happened 3 times within a span of about 2 minutes or less. I am afraid this could still be a residual effect of his/her bout of respiratory infection. He was given a shot of 0.01 ml of doxycycline every 3 days for 2 weeks. His last shot was 5 days ago. He seems to be back to his active self. But yesterday and today, he ate less than the amount he usually consumes. Has anybody had a similar experience, or would have some explanation for this? Should I be worried?
 

Sarah2020

Well-Known Member
Tortoise Club
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Mar 16, 2020
Messages
1,604
Location (City and/or State)
London, UK
Soak water must be shallow and warm not hot . I recommend a temp gun to check temperatures water should be no hotter than 33C.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,269
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Today, he hasn’t done it. I suppose the water was too hot yesterday. Today, I waited a few minutes to get the water below 40C. Thanks.
40C? It should be close to 33C. You're going to make turtle soup if you are not careful there.

Does this tortoise get regular access to sunshine? Calcium supplementation? What do you feed it?
 

Maryalice

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2021
Messages
64
Location (City and/or State)
Pasig City, Metro Manila, Philippinex
Hi Tom. It usually takes him longer to poop and expel urates if the water is colder. But yes, will bring the water temp down. Yes, he does get regular access to sunshine, except when it’s rainy (which has been on and off the these past 3 weeks). Overall he got 30-45 minutes of sunshine about 2-4 days per week these past 3 rainy weeks. On sunny days he would have his 30-45 minutes daily walk around my grassy yard. He gets 1/8 tsp of calcium in his food 3x a week, and reptivite multivitamins 2x a week. His daily diet consists of lawn grass or napier grass (50%), and 50% greens (alternating among hibiscus leaves, or mulberry leaves, or nalta jute leaves, or sweet potato leaves, or romaine lettuce, so that each type of greens will have a 5-day interval before it gets served again). Every 3 days, I would add a little amount of shaved squash or zucchini or carrots which would be about 5% of his diet on that day, so that the greens would be 45% and the grass 50%. I tried introducing Exoprime tortoise food yesterday, but he shunned them. He lives in a 50-gallon glass aquarium with pine bark as substrate. Since his bout with RI, i have kept him indoors and kept the temp between 30C to 35C day and night. But of course I use the infrared bulb at night to keep the temp constant. I have stuck 2 digital thermometer/hygrometer at each end of his enclosure and moved it to 3 inches above the substrate. I normally follow what these thermometers say, although when i double check the temperature using a thermal gun, the reading would be about 3-5 degrees higher. Humidity ranges from 40%- 75% during the day. I normally move the whole enclosure between the lanai and the exercise room during the day, especially when the humidity gets too low in the exercise room or too high in the lanai. But he is kept in the exercise room at night.

Thanks for looking into the situation of my 4-month old sulcata hatchling. Looking forward to your advice.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,269
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Hi Tom. It usually takes him longer to poop and expel urates if the water is colder. But yes, will bring the water temp down. Yes, he does get regular access to sunshine, except when it’s rainy (which has been on and off the these past 3 weeks). Overall he got 30-45 minutes of sunshine about 2-4 days per week these past 3 rainy weeks. On sunny days he would have his 30-45 minutes daily walk around my grassy yard. He gets 1/8 tsp of calcium in his food 3x a week, and reptivite multivitamins 2x a week. His daily diet consists of lawn grass or napier grass (50%), and 50% greens (alternating among hibiscus leaves, or mulberry leaves, or nalta jute leaves, or sweet potato leaves, or romaine lettuce, so that each type of greens will have a 5-day interval before it gets served again). Every 3 days, I would add a little amount of shaved squash or zucchini or carrots which would be about 5% of his diet on that day, so that the greens would be 45% and the grass 50%. I tried introducing Exoprime tortoise food yesterday, but he shunned them. He lives in a 50-gallon glass aquarium with pine bark as substrate. Since his bout with RI, i have kept him indoors and kept the temp between 30C to 35C day and night. But of course I use the infrared bulb at night to keep the temp constant. I have stuck 2 digital thermometer/hygrometer at each end of his enclosure and moved it to 3 inches above the substrate. I normally follow what these thermometers say, although when i double check the temperature using a thermal gun, the reading would be about 3-5 degrees higher. Humidity ranges from 40%- 75% during the day. I normally move the whole enclosure between the lanai and the exercise room during the day, especially when the humidity gets too low in the exercise room or too high in the lanai. But he is kept in the exercise room at night.

Thanks for looking into the situation of my 4-month old sulcata hatchling. Looking forward to your advice.
Most of this sounds perfect, and this eliminates my suspicion of possible MBD which can cause muscle tremors in some cases.

The only thing I'd change is the infrared heat lamp. They need it dark at night. Night heat is best delivered through ceramic heating element to a radiant heat panel controlled by a thermostat.

I think your problem was the hot water.
 

Maryalice

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2021
Messages
64
Location (City and/or State)
Pasig City, Metro Manila, Philippinex
Most of this sounds perfect, and this eliminates my suspicion of possible MBD which can cause muscle tremors in some cases.

The only thing I'd change is the infrared heat lamp. They need it dark at night. Night heat is best delivered through ceramic heating element to a radiant heat panel controlled by a thermostat.

I think your problem was the hot water.
 

Maryalice

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2021
Messages
64
Location (City and/or State)
Pasig City, Metro Manila, Philippinex
Thanks Tom, for the confirmation of the source of my hatchling's leg shaking. I thought infrared heating lamps are the same as heating lamps. Just checked the box now and it is indeed a "reptile ceramic heat emitter" and its brand is Lucky Herp.

But now, I am concerned that Frankie (my hatchling) is not eating. In the past 2 days, he was eating only about a third of his usual intake. This morning, he just ignored his breakfast and went back to his hide. He had never ignored his food, even when he was sick with RI. I don't know if the added vit. B-complex shot that the vet gave him at the same time as his last doxycline shot, had something to do with his lost of appetite. That last shot was administered 7 days ago. But knowing tortoises' slow metabolism, is it possible that Frankie is exhibiting its side effects now? I already messaged the vet clinic, and am awaiting their response. Would like to know your thoughts on this.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,269
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
But now, I am concerned that Frankie (my hatchling) is not eating. In the past 2 days, he was eating only about a third of his usual intake. This morning, he just ignored his breakfast and went back to his hide. He had never ignored his food, even when he was sick with RI. I don't know if the added vit. B-complex shot that the vet gave him at the same time as his last doxycline shot, had something to do with his lost of appetite. That last shot was administered 7 days ago. But knowing tortoises' slow metabolism, is it possible that Frankie is exhibiting its side effects now? I already messaged the vet clinic, and am awaiting their response. Would like to know your thoughts on this.
Two problems: 1. Almost no one in the whole world starts baby sulcatas correctly. The terrible dehydration causes kidney damage, but it doesn't kill them for weeks or months. You buy one, they seem fine, eat well, are active, but they don't grow much. They stall at around 50 grams. How much does your tortoise weigh?
2. Its been my experience that baby torts cannot handle "vitamin" injections and antibiotic injections. Its just too much for their little systems to handle. BUT... I've never injected a properly raised, well hydrated, healthy hatchling with either "vitamins" or any kind of medicine, because there is no need for it. So the questions are: Were these injected babies started too dry upon hatching and they were going to die anyway? Did their compromised kidneys contribute to a lack of ability to handle an injection? Would a normal healthy baby die or be harmed by an unnecessary and unproductive "vitamin' shot, or by antibiotics? I don't know the answers to these questions, but refer to number 1 for a clue.

For anyone interested, more on number 1 here:
 

Maryalice

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2021
Messages
64
Location (City and/or State)
Pasig City, Metro Manila, Philippinex
Hi Tom and other co-tort carers. Just happy to let you know that my baby sulcata, Frankie, has resumed being an eating machine after 3days of almost not eating. On his 3rd day, when i was soaking him, he let out 1 huge poop. So i changed his water, and soon after he pooped again, then i changed his water, then he pooped again. In the 30 minutes of soaking he pooped 5 times! And then i let him roam the yard for his usual 30-minute stroll, and he was trying to eat the lawn grass. So I knew he’s better and that it was constipation that caused his poor appetite. I know he is not yet over the hump, and hatchling failure is still a possibility. But I am living it by the day, and doing my best to ensure his survival. Today he weighed 68 gms, 2 gms more than last week. So yes, am relieved.

Three days ago, I got a younger sulcata from a tortoise enthusiast who seems to be doing everything right, as far as hydration is concerned. The hatchling i got is from his sulcatas’ 3rd clutch. While about 2 months younger than Frankie, this new hatchling is bigger by 1/4 of an inch and 6 grams heavier at 74 gms. So, this must be an example of a well-started hatchling. I keep my 2 hatchlings in separate enclosures and provide separate things such as soaking basins, and plan for them not to meet until maybe by Christmas. I don’t want this new hatchling to catch Frankie’s residual RI.
 

Sarah2020

Well-Known Member
Tortoise Club
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Mar 16, 2020
Messages
1,604
Location (City and/or State)
London, UK
Great news and thanks for the update let's hope all to that is behind you and Frankie now. Good that you have planned total separation for new Sulcata to avoid cross contamination.
 
Top