Unusual carapace

[Yvonne G]

The tortoise wasn't abandoned in the vacant lot in the boonies, it wandered out of its yard and motated to that vacant lot. You place a "found" ad in the classified section of the local newspaper. You put up fliers on utility poles.

I've tried to find it, but the search came up empty: we had someone in Hawaii post a picture here on the forum not too long ago of a female sulcata that was red like your found tortoise because of the dirt where she lived. It looked pretty much like the same tortoise. Can anyone find that picture for us?

 

[Kristina]

http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-12931.html

 

[KenG]

Yeah, our dirt out here has a lot of iron in it (all our land came from volcanic eruptions), & when you get the red dirt on anything, it's a bear to get out. But it doesn't permanently stain a tortoise's (or my) skin. Red dirt is found everywhere in the state, by the way, including my back yard.

Yvonne, I wasn't with the police officer who found her, so I don't know if anyone is missing a tort, but I went back to March 23 on Craigslist (that's as far back as it shows in Lost & Found), & didn't see any listing about a tortoise, & there's nothing in the local newspapers, either. And how practical is it to place a paid ad in the paper when you know everyone whoever wanted a tortoise will respond? There's no easy way to ID a Sulcata (I doubt they've ever been microchipped), so how can anyone prove it's theirs?

As an aside, since you also do rescues, Yvonne, what criteria do you use to adopt them out? I've already posted why few people here have the facilities for Sulcatas, but maybe I can learn something from your techniques & do the same. Thanks in advance.

 

[Jacqui]

Ken, I want to take this moment and let you know how impressed I am, with how your handling some pretty negative comments, especially since your new to this site and we should have been more welcoming of you. Glad your hanging in there!

 

[Yvonne G]

If its a found tortoise, I place an ad in the paper. Found ads are free in my city. I don't put too much info in the ad because for every legitimate responder, there are 10 who just want a free tortoise. Then I'll make up fliers and put them on utility poles in the neighborhood where the tortoise was found. I keep them for 2 weeks to be sure they are healthy and are eating well, then I adopt them out. I don't charge a fee, however, I DO go over to the prospective adoptee's house and have a look at their yard or tortoise habitat. I look for safe, sturdy fences, gates that close tightly, fenced in swimming pools, dogs, plenty of shade, plenty of sun, water and hiding places. While I'm walking around looking at the yard, I'm also assessing the person who wants to adopt. I'm a pretty good judge of character and you can learn a lot about a person by just visiting and talking casually. If the yard and the person pass MY inspection, I give them hand-outs showing them how to care for their new tortoise, and include my phone number .

I have to agree with what Jacqui has said. We've come down on you pretty hard, but you've maintained a good attitude. I'm sure you're going to be a valued tortoise forum member.

 

[KenG]

Thanks, Yvonne, both for the advice & the compliment.

This morning's drop-off was unusual, as nearly all of my rescues come from the local Humane Society - the one exception was the juvenile Pardalis I found marching down a main highway a few years ago. As my son works there, I know that they do their best to locate the owner, but I can remember only once when I'd picked up a Sulcata from there, & the owner came in a week later with a photo that ID'd the tortoise. I happily reunited them, of course. Do you think that's enough due diligence? Ads are definitely not free in our newspapers! In fact, one of the two is up for sale as we speak, & its owner is buying the one that's staying in business.... Sometimes it's a very strange place to live.

On the adoption end, I like your approach, but don't know how to start out here. First, I run a computer consulting company, & of course that pays the bills & has my attention before anything else (ain't cheap out here in Paradise!). Second, there are about 1.2 million people on Oahu, scattered across several hundred square miles; our city & county of Honolulu are the same entity. So if someone on the North Shore or Makaha wanted to adopt, I just wouldn't have the time to drive 60 miles to their house to check out all the things that you do. Third, I've mentioned the manini (tiny) yards in Hawaii, & I also can't think of a single fence within a mile of my house. I have a 3' rock wall in front of my yard, but nothing else to enclose the yard - that's just the way things are out here, Yvonne. No problem with swimming pools, as nearly everyone is within 15 minutes of the ocean. Frankly, it's a lot easier on me just to rescue & hold on to the torts & turtles, & stay in contact with our zoos in case they want one. I think of that as practicality, rather than laziness!

Is your rescue organization set up as a non-profit, Yvonne? And how do you man it - volunteers? My pro bono work with my Rotary club is called the Hawaii Computers for Kids Program, which I've run for 18 years (check out http://www.catii.com/comp4kids.html). I don't have a cadre of helpers for tortoises like I do for that program; if you're set up that way with volunteers, please give me some advice on how you do it. Linda & I certainly don't mind taking care of our herd, but I'm willing to adopt some out if I can figure out how to do so rationally.

 

[TortieGal]

Good to have you on the forum Ken looks like you really have your hands full. I to want to say I'm impressed with your good attitude also. I visited Hawaii a few years ago and got the wonderful experience of swimming with the sea turtles. Swam with several medium sized ones and one really super big one came out of a cave in the rocks and swam right to me and popped up in front of me. It was the best vacation I ever took, loved it. You’re very lucky to live in such a nice place and have the company of such amazing creatures. Hope you find a way to make more room for them. Welcome to the forum

 

[moswen2]

Why would you let a brand new "rescued" animal in with your existing tortoises without a quarantine period??? That's just begging for trouble.

I don't think you should call yourself a rescuer if you are breeding animals. Most rescues are disbarred from their qualifications if they are found breeding animals, or allowing them to breed on the premises.

Are you certified?

I have no idea why his carapace is so deformed. Was something done to him when he was young, and his shell was still malleable? At best its an injury. It would be kinda crappy if its in his genetics, seeing as he just bred four females?? Again, I miss the logic.

Welcome to the forum. Lots of good information here.

lol, as a side note, meg's the only one with fangs on the forum.

 

[Annieski]

Ken---How good of you to have given 18 years of "service" to the kids. A long while back, I was very involved with our church, setting up some structure for "community service" projects that required age-appropriate participation, in order to receive Sacraments. The kids got involved at "soup kitchens", fund raisers, clothing drives, and Community clean-ups. It was very successful for all involved and later found that the participation was beneficial on a college app. Do you think there would be a way to incorporate something like this in your area, or perhaps at the high school or university level [maybe even as some kind of research project]?

 

[KenG]

There are several groups out here doing just that, Annieski, & my Rotary club has provided funding each year - a very successful program.

My program involves training teachers & students to take the donations I receive, diagnose & repair problem, & then set them up either for use in their own schools or for donating to other schools & non-profits. Of the 264 public schools in Hawaii, we've been able to help 211 so far with the training, & all K-12 schools have received donation assets. I have literally thousands of volunteers across the state (thank goodness!). And because we don't accept any money, Hawaii Computers for Kids is the oldest program of this type in the country. We've been around so long that we even get donations from Japan, Germany, & several other countries. Hard work, but well worth it.

Just wish I could do something similar with my tortoise rescue program to make people like Meg happy...!

 

[Annieski]

But Ken, that's what I was thinking of for the tortoises. Maybe if the kids[and teachers] could get involved with computer "research" let's say about Sulcatas, and maybe an area around the school could be sectioned off,and maybe a Sulcata or two could be kept there for a period of time[with some supervision], the kids get involved-- computer is used--- teachers have a hands on way to instill learning---and some Sulcatas get more space and grazing area for even a little bit of time to help with the "crowded conditions". Just a thought. And I think a nice way to "repay" you and the volunteers for what you do for the kids.

 

[Meg90]

Would you ever consider adopting to people on the forum? I know Tyler expressed interest---Tom also keeps large sullies. Both have a large amount of space and well setup enclosures. I am just saying, if there are people here willing to pay to ship them, don't you think it would be a good idea to re-home some of them?

That way, your existing animals have more space, and your rescue has more room to take in new animals.

 

[Shelly]

Would you ever consider adopting to people on the forum?

From Hawaii? shipping would cost a small fortune.
It's obvious to me this guy is doing the best he can with what he's got. Kudos to him.

 

[Nay]

Hi,
I just started reading this thread and have to say first welcome, Ken. Second, great job handling all those sullies. and third, I was not going to mention how things get said here sometimes, but since it was already addressed, I also am impressed how you have maintained a very cool attitude. You know what you have available to you and are doing a wonderful service that most of us could not provide with much more.
It has been a pleasure reading your responses and hope you continue to let us enjoy your life on Hawaii. I was there on in 1980 and hope to someday return.
What a wonderful place.
Na

 

[tortoisenerd]

I think spending the 10 minutes to get a shipping quote could be very worthwhile because I have heard of people who would think nothing of paying $500 for a full grown Sulcata. Many people don't want to support breeding and therefore won't buy a hatchling, but have a hard time finding one to adopt. A shipping company may be able to even cut you a deal since you are doing it nonprofit and rehoming a rescued animal, etc. Or, you may even be able to get donations from an animal shelter, or set up a Paypal site for people on the forums to donate (this has been done before to help pay for vet bills for a tort at least one time since I've been here).

 

[motero]

Looked it up, shipping to AZ is roughly $2 per pound second day air. So a 50lb package is around $100, 75lb is $150, 100lb is just over $200. Plus what ever packaging supplies will be needed. Not that bad compared to the 9yr old Sulcata that sold for $900 on CL last month.

 

[Shelly]

Looked it up, shipping to AZ is roughly $2 per pound second day air. So a 50lb package is around $100, 75lb is $150, 100lb is just over $200. Plus what ever packaging supplies will be needed. Not that bad compared to the 9yr old Sulcata that sold for $900 on CL last month.

According to the UPS website, 2nd day air from Maui to my home in Southern California would be $490 for a 125 pound package that measured 36x36x24, which is probably smaller than would be needed.
To Arizona would be more.

 

[TylerStewart]

I bought a large group of elongated tortoises from someone in Hawaii (Oahu) a while back, and the shipping into Vegas was something like $250, which was two boxes, with 10 adult 10-12" elongated tortoises in each box.... It is obviously more than state to state here on the mainland, but it's not impossible.

36x36x24 is much more than you'd need to ship a large sulcata... Not sure where you got that number. UPS bases much of their shipping costs on dimensional weight, so if I'm shipping a box that is 15x11x7, they're going to charge me for 6 pounds, even if it only weighs 2. Same thing goes for larger boxes. When I ship my tortoise tables, I get charged 28 pounds, even though they weigh 10. If you use a massive oversized box, you are going to get raped on shipping costs accordingly.

 

[dragnikla]

I don't know what could have caused the weird shape, but there was a similar tortoise situation in china. They called it a gourd shaped tortoise, and the owner said it just grew like that. Some people still suspect abuse, like having it locked in irons around the middle as a leash. Here are some pictures of the tort. I suppose it could be environmental because there are alot of deformities found in that region, tumors, extra limbs and such, there is just no way of knowing. Here are some photos.
http://www.imaginechina.com/showStoryDetail.ic?imgType=NewsImage&id=pau135636

Also my sister lives in Hilo on the Big Island and the houses there seem to have more land available, maybe you could advertise for adoptions between the islands to save on the cost of shipping, and make it easier to investigate and determine if the housing is appropriate for a large sulcata.

If you can't visit in person, always ask the person to email you a picture of their enclosure, or even enclosure in progress, with a current newspaper to determine the date. Although it is still cheaper to buy a baby sulcata from a pet shop, You could set up a website for adoptions, and have all the educational information for care and housing on the site.

There are people on the mainland who are willing to take in adults, but that doesn't mean you wont get more. Since you are working with the humaine society, maybe they could link between the other islands, and the mainland to find homes for the majority of the adult sulcatas you have now. If there was a website where people could apply to adopt one of your torts, and the humaine society had a link to it, then more people would be able to help.

If you need help setting up a website, I have a friend who does that for a living, i'm sure he would be glad to help. He lives in Hilo, HI as well. Here is a link to the company, http://www.koaconsulting.com/?ref=hurai.com you probably wont need anything this involved, there are options to make your own web page, i'm just not as knowledgeable about it. The main thing is to become accessible, have a shipping calculator on the page, and find a company locally that you trust. Most live animals are shipped overnight express, because of the weight and size it can be expensive. I don't think it would be unreasonable for you to ask the adoptive parents to pay that fee. depending on the company you may be able to get a discount as a rescue.

There are some states saturated with Sulcatas and others still, that have none, so if we can spread them out, and create a simple plan for cold and warm weather habitats the Sulcatas you have can each have their own family. They really are solitary animals, and although Hawaii seems to make everyone more social and friendly, I would hate for something to happen because they got sick of looking at each other.

Sorry I know that's a lot of information, but I hope that it will help get the wheels turning. If people are willing to pay, and can prove that they can care for one or two of your torts properly I think it would be a great idea to let them expand there horizons, although if you ask me they have been spoiled by hawaii.

 

[Kristina]

Great info and ideas, Dragnikla!!!